help with my toyota set up > 4X4REVIEW.COM: 4X4 Discussion Forums

Bone Stock
Posts:14

09/03/2007 8:10 AM
i just got a 86 toyota i need a little advice with geting the right set up. the truck is a little weak i was going to put a 32/36 weber carb,and set of headers on it for performance. 5.29 gears with lockers ,and a 3 inch body lift with 33s. if any body has any advise as in what brand gears,and if the carb is right for the 22r engins ,or any thing elese i need to do to it please let me know.[bartor]

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/05/2007 5:33 AM
5.29 is too low for 33's, unless you have an auto trans. 4.88 would be a better choice.

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

Lift & Lockers
Posts:943

09/05/2007 9:35 PM
quote: Originally posted by fourwd1 5.29 is too low for 33's, unless you have an auto trans. 4.88 would be a better choice. Like "H it is too low, 5.29 is about perfect for that engine, lift and tire size. It is more than just numbers here, with bigger tires and lift there is more drag to overcome and gears will help that. I am not to keen on header for it though because if you lug it on trail it will hurt lower RPM torque and response.

-------------------------- Visit the SnoMan at www.thesnoman.com

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/07/2007 5:17 AM
As I said, 5.29 gears are too low for 33" tires. They are perfect for 36" tires, putting the engine back in the power band and the speedo will be dead accurate. For 33" tires, 4.88 gearing is the best choice, although many people go with 4.56 if it's mainly on-road. Now if the vehicle were equipped with an auto trans, you would want to go one step lower, so in that case 33's/5.29's would work.

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

Lift & Lockers
Posts:943

09/07/2007 7:11 AM
quote: Originally posted by fourwd1 As I said, 5.29 gears are too low for 33" tires. They are perfect for 36" tires, putting the engine back in the power band and the speedo will be dead accurate. For 33" tires, 4.88 gearing is the best choice, although many people go with 4.56 if it's mainly on-road. Now if the vehicle were equipped with an auto trans, you would want to go one step lower, so in that case 33's/5.29's would work. Your Dreaming.... For 36's with that tiny motor you would need more than 5.29's if you wanted it to run its best. Lets do the math, with stock tires and stock 4.10 gears it would have been turning about 3200 RPM at 65 MPH. With 33's and 4.88 it would also be turning about 3200 RPM but it would have to work a lot harder too because of more drag to overcome for added rolling resistance and drag from lift. Because of this you want more RPM at cruise than before. 5.29's would give you about 3500 RPM cruise at 65 and should play well. Your theory that 5.29 would be ideal for 36's is wrong too because with 36's and 5.29's you would have about 3200 RPM cruise again. (you seem to be hung up on same RPM but trucks are not in a vacuum with lifts and there is more drag to overcome and deeper gears help offset this) With even more drag to overcome and it would perform even worse with 5.29's and 36's than 33's with 4.88's. For 36's a 5.71 would be a better match because it yield a cruise RPM close to what 33's and a 5.29 would give at 65 MPH (just under 3500RPM) There would be some reduced performance over 33 and 5.29's because of extra drag but overall it would be better than 4.88's with 33's and 5.29's with 36's. The engine makes its power at RPM and if you want it to do that extra work you need to little it wind up a little more cruising with lift and tires. Sounds like the owner of this truck has done his homework better than you because he is thinking of installing 5.29 to play with 33's, not 4.88's which would not be best choice here.

-------------------------- Visit the SnoMan at www.thesnoman.com

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/07/2007 8:06 AM
No, I'm afraid you're the one that's dreaming. I speak from reality, not from paperwork and "theories". I actually run 36's on my 22R (yes carbed, not even EFI) equipped 5.29 geared truck, on the road to get to where I'm going to offroad. Speedo is dead on accurate and I can cruise at 65 MPH just fine. Not bad for a 23 year old truck with maybe 86 of the original 96 HP left.

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

Lift & Lockers
Posts:943

09/07/2007 12:17 PM
quote: Originally posted by fourwd1 No, I'm afraid you're the one that's dreaming. I speak from reality, not from paperwork and "theories". I actually run 36's on my 22R (yes carbed, not even EFI) equipped 5.29 geared truck, on the road to get to where I'm going to offroad. Speedo is dead on accurate and I can cruise at 65 MPH just fine. Not bad for a 23 year old truck with maybe 86 of the original 96 HP left. No, you have very low standards and likely never had a 4x4 the was geared properly so you want others to be the same. Misery loves company. I have no doubt you can cruise 65 as long as it is pretty flat with no headwind and maybe a little tail wind too. When you lift a truck and regear you do not shoot for same RPM with bigger tires if you want it to run right, you shoot for more RPM to give you more power to overcome drag and then recal speedo or ham string it like you have done yours.

-------------------------- Visit the SnoMan at www.thesnoman.com

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/07/2007 7:39 PM
I've been nice and trying to tolerate your stupidity, but you haven't a clue. Pie, I suggest you take you're gearing question to another of the many Toyota 4WD BBS's. Then you can decide for yourself to take the advice of a theorizing mall crawling web wheeling wanna be or someone who actually wheels their truck. I ran 33's with my 5.29's for several weeks while wating for my 36's to come in. It sucked, especially on the highway, constantly shifting, looking for the right gear for the speed I was doing, wondering where 3 1/2rd, 4 1/2th, and 5 1/2th gears were. Your choice dude.

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

Lift & Lockers
Posts:943

09/08/2007 5:29 AM
quote: Originally posted by fourwd1 I've been nice and trying to tolerate your stupidity, but you haven't a clue. Pie, I suggest you take you're gearing question to another of the many Toyota 4WD BBS's. Then you can decide for yourself to take the advice of a theorizing mall crawling web wheeling wanna be or someone who actually wheels their truck. I ran 33's with my 5.29's for several weeks while wating for my 36's to come in. It sucked, especially on the highway, constantly shifting, looking for the right gear for the speed I was doing, wondering where 3 1/2rd, 4 1/2th, and 5 1/2th gears were. Your choice dude. Your posting makes no sense at all. (like some of your other comments) You had to shift more with 5.29's and 33's than with 36's??? I guess what you are really trying to say is that with 36's you really had less usable gears and you liked that better. Bizzare, just like some of your other claims. I "meet" another guy like you once, he though it was just fine to use less gear because it was okay to no use upper gears sometime. He seemed to forget that deeper gear also give yo power wheel torque at lower speeds too as well as more cruise power. TO me is a properly geared truck, top gear is not something you can only use when the wind, grade and speed it right.

-------------------------- Visit the SnoMan at www.thesnoman.com

Lift & Lockers
Posts:943

09/08/2007 7:39 AM
To simplify it even further, with say 36's and 5.29, if your engine has its torque peak of 140 ft lbs at say 3500rpm, you would be turning about 3200 and maybe have 130 ft lbs of torque if your lucky which means you would have a little under 80 HP available at flywheel to move truck in direct drive before drive line losses. With 5.71's you would have about 92 HP available at the flywheel (about 16% more HP) in same scenario. You promote the one with less power to deal with lift and drag as the better option.

-------------------------- Visit the SnoMan at www.thesnoman.com

Bone Stock
Posts:14

09/08/2007 3:09 PM
Thanks guys for your advice. The only reason i wanted 5.29s is i wanted it to be geared low .The truck well be a hunting truck. Were i live it we never see the highway, and it has 4.10 in it now and i have to gear down to 3 and 2 to get up some of the mountain roads here. Got good compression 150-160 on all cylinders. Carbs bad i think. Has a five speed out of a 88 model,was a four speed, and if it is too low i can always experament with my tire size. Do you guys know what carb would be best on it . It has a aisan carb on it now ,not stock . I think it came from autozone. Just had the truck for 3 weeks so im going to do some good mods if i can find out what wold work best. Thanks again any advie whould be helpful.

Lift & Lockers
Posts:943

09/08/2007 3:41 PM
quote: Originally posted by pie Thanks guys for your advice. The only reason i wanted 5.29s is i wanted it to be geared low .The truck well be a hunting truck. Were i live it we never see the highway, and it has 4.10 in it now and i have to gear down to 3 and 2 to get up some of the mountain roads here. Got good compression 150-160 on all cylinders. Carbs bad i think. Has a five speed out of a 88 model,was a four speed, and if it is too low i can always experament with my tire size. Do you guys know what carb would be best on it . It has a aisan carb on it now ,not stock . I think it came from autozone. Just had the truck for 3 weeks so im going to do some good mods if i can find out what wold work best. Thanks again any advie whould be helpful. Were are you taking in the mountains at? (location}

-------------------------- Visit the SnoMan at www.thesnoman.com

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/08/2007 3:52 PM
quote: Originally posted by pie Thanks guys for your advice. The only reason i wanted 5.29s is i wanted it to be geared low .The truck well be a hunting truck. Were i live it we never see the highway, and it has 4.10 in it now and i have to gear down to 3 and 2 to get up some of the mountain roads here. Got good compression 150-160 on all cylinders. Carbs bad i think. Has a five speed out of a 88 model,was a four speed, and if it is too low i can always experament with my tire size. Do you guys know what carb would be best on it . It has a aisan carb on it now ,not stock . I think it came from autozone. Just had the truck for 3 weeks so im going to do some good mods if i can find out what wold work best. Thanks again any advie whould be helpful. If it's primarily an offroad truck, consider keeping the diff gears you have and install a crawler gear in the t-case. That will give you everything you need offroad, and at a much lower price. Crawler gears are $400 and if you're even slightly mechanical you can do it yourself. Regearing the diffs will be in the $800-1000 range. The stock t-case low range is 2.28:1 and you can go to 4.0 or even 4.7:1. The stock Toy carb is Asin, and is hard to beat. Yours may need rebuilding after 20 years. The other choice is a Webber, but they tend to be more trouble than they are worth (according to people I know that have them).

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

Dan Pitts

Body Lift
Posts:232

09/08/2007 3:52 PM
so yeah i just put 5.29s in my truck and it is almost the perfect gearing. i got a 5.1 transfercase and it works perfect off road. and on the road it is just as good when i can just cruise around and never have to floor it. yeah my tire are like 15inches wide and when i go to a 35-12.50 i think it will be dead on perfect all the way around. if it was me i would go with the 5.29s they are not to low for my 33s.

Danny Pitts ---------------------------------- lift it, fat chicks can't jump

Lift & Lockers
Posts:943

09/08/2007 5:12 PM
quote: Originally posted by fourwd1 [ If it's primarily an offroad truck, consider keeping the diff gears you have and install a crawler gear in the t-case. That will give you everything you need offroad, and at a much lower price. Crawler gears are $400 and if you're even slightly mechanical you can do it yourself. Regearing the diffs will be in the $800-1000 range. The stock t-case low range is 2.28:1 and you can go to 4.0 or even 4.7:1. Bad advise! Gives no thought at all to added drive shaft torque, its effect on it and ujoints nor the axle torque wrapup from torque input. (it wraps up on two axises. The first is the wrap up in springs due to wheel torque and the second in in chassis from drive shaft torque. (it takes weight off right rr going forward and the taller the gear the worse it is and this is why RR always spins first 99% of the time without posi on good ground) You can ignore the physics of it (or newtons law like you are) and increase drive shaft loading about 25 to 30% to get same wheel effort to ground vs deeper axle gears and reduced traction too or regear truck, reduce drive line torque and extend drive line life and improve traction too. Further more if poster hunt in a high altitude even deeper gear would help with power loss over all and no just in 4 extra low off road. There is a right way and a wrong way to do this and original poster was on right track to begin with nad you are trying to steer him wrong.

-------------------------- Visit the SnoMan at www.thesnoman.com

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/08/2007 9:25 PM
You truly have no clue do you? So everyone running crawler gears and/or dual cases is wrong ??? You obviously don't wheel your truck, if you even have one. All you seem to do in any thread you respond to is spout theoretical mathematical BS and twist peoples words. No actual real life observations. The true sign of a web wheeling wanna be. My 4.7 dual cased, 36" tire equipped, 5.29 geared truck must be the exception to all your imaginary rules. That and the other thousand or so similiarly built trucks across the country. Yeah, I didn't invent it, I applied proven methods when building my truck. Mine drives just fine on the road and wheels on the rocks good enough to be in 2 major offroad magazine articles, along with other trucks I regularly wheel with. (Yeah, I'm proud of that) [^] But I guess they are all wrong, you are the expert of everything (at least in your mind), we all should sell our trucks cause we don't know what we're doing. But that won't happen, we'll keep wheeling while keep imagining.

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

Forum Admin, Magazine Editor

Rock Star
Posts:2375

09/08/2007 9:43 PM
Hey Fourwd1 - post some pics of your rig pls. Rick

Rick Webster Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '74 FJ40 Land Cruiser "Measure once, cut twice"

Forum Admin, Magazine Editor

Rock Star
Posts:2375

09/08/2007 9:48 PM
quote: Originally posted by fourwd1 If it's primarily an offroad truck, consider keeping the diff gears you have and install a crawler gear in the t-case. That will give you everything you need offroad, and at a much lower price. Crawler gears are $400 and if you're even slightly mechanical you can do it yourself. Regearing the diffs will be in the $800-1000 range. The stock t-case low range is 2.28:1 and you can go to 4.0 or even 4.7:1. I concur. Going with deep gears in the T-Case is an awesome way to go. I have a 4.0:1 Dana 300 in my FJ and 4:88:1 gears with 35's. I can still do 65-70 mph, but I'm quite low when I need to crawl. It's the best of both world really. quote: Originally posted by fourwd1 The stock Toy carb is Asin, and is hard to beat. Yours may need rebuilding after 20 years. The other choice is a Webber, but they tend to be more trouble than they are worth (according to people I know that have them). I concur - don't bother with the Weber... they're a cheap replacement carb if you can't rebuild yours or get a stock Asin unit. Rick

Rick Webster Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '74 FJ40 Land Cruiser "Measure once, cut twice"

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/08/2007 9:57 PM
quote: Originally posted by webby4x4 Hey Fourwd1 - post some pics of your rig pls. Rick OK, you can't attach images on this BBS, I'll have to find a pic host website to post and link to. Give me a couple a days [:D] Glad to see I'm not the only one on this BBS with a clue [banger]

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/08/2007 10:13 PM
For the time being, I think I have some on Cardomain, but a little old. Search for my screen name there.

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

Bone Stock
Posts:14

09/09/2007 5:51 AM
were can i get a new stock carb for my toyota?still dont know if its the stock one. dont look like the one in my hanes repare book.

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/09/2007 2:03 PM
You might be able to get one from Toyota, but if it's still available expect to pay $500 or more. It should be fairly easy to get a used one, just look for a p/u or 4Runner, 2WD or 4WD, the same year (if possible) as yours. Other years will work, but some vacuum ports, etc maybe a litle different.

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

Forum Admin, Magazine Editor

Rock Star
Posts:2375

09/09/2007 5:01 PM
quote: Originally posted by fourwd1 OK, you can't attach images on this BBS, I'll have to find a pic host website to post and link to. Give me a couple a days [:D] Glad to see I'm not the only one on this BBS with a clue [banger] Hey Fourwd1 - are you getting an error message or something? Lots of others have been able to post / upload pictures on the boards. If you are getting an error message, please shoot me an email (rick@4x4review.com) and I'll take a peek. thanks man, Rick

Rick Webster Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '74 FJ40 Land Cruiser "Measure once, cut twice"

Bone Stock
Posts:14

09/09/2007 8:40 PM
could somebody out there put a pic of a stock carb for a 22r. mine isnt the same as the haynes book cant find the air fuel mix screw

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Rock Star
Posts:2375

09/10/2007 9:19 AM
Here ya go... I think they were all the same from 1981 to 1990 or something like that. Image Uploaded To Thread: [img]http://www.4x4review.com/discussions2/uploaded/webby4x4/200791091831_aisin-1.jpg[/img] Image Uploaded To Thread: [img]http://www.4x4review.com/discussions2/uploaded/webby4x4/200791091847_aisin-2.jpg[/img] Rick

Rick Webster Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '74 FJ40 Land Cruiser "Measure once, cut twice"

Lift & Lockers
Posts:943

09/10/2007 11:28 AM
I have a carb that kinda looks just like that in the garage, it is off a old Tercel.

-------------------------- Visit the SnoMan at www.thesnoman.com

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Rock Star
Posts:2375

09/10/2007 3:32 PM
I'm about 99% sure that all of those carbs are the same for the 22R motor for that year-frame. The 1.6L engines (Celicas, Coronas, Tercels, etc.) had a carb that looked like this: [img]http://www.4x4review.com/discussions2/uploaded/webby4x4/2007910153155_aisin-celica.jpg[/img] Rick

Rick Webster Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '74 FJ40 Land Cruiser "Measure once, cut twice"

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/12/2007 7:14 PM
quote: Originally posted by webby4x4 Hey Fourwd1 - are you getting an error message or something? Lots of others have been able to post / upload pictures on the boards. If you are getting an error message, please shoot me an email (rick@4x4review.com) and I'll take a peek. thanks man, Rick I figured it out, I just have to shrink my pics to fit. No time right now, getting the truck ready for this weekend. Wheeling is more important :)

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

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Rock Star
Posts:2375

09/13/2007 7:20 AM
quote: Originally posted by fourwd1 ...Wheeling is more important :) Amen brutha! Now get off the boards and go wheelin man! [)]

Rick Webster Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '74 FJ40 Land Cruiser "Measure once, cut twice"

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/13/2007 5:49 PM
pic test Image Uploaded To Thread: [img]http://www.4x4review.com/discussions2/uploaded/fourwd1/2007913174750_0702or_30pc.jpg[/img] Fourwd1 - I fixed the filename of your image so that it would work. Most web servers don't like to render image filenames that have special characters, spaces, plus signs, etc. That's why this one didn't render... Edited by Webby4x4 - Forum Admin

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

ChevyMan0784 User is Offline

Lift & Lockers
Posts:699

09/14/2007 2:15 PM
wow, this is a great feeling. It kind of like that awful funk when your dad hits your mom at the dinner table. And she tells you to keep eating, and that everything is fine....lol. If you are only going to use your truck off road, gear it as low as you can tolerate!! But I believe FourWD1 in that, 4:88's are great for overall driving. That includes onroad too. But personally, if it is only for offroad....just go for it and do deep a$$ gears. You will use it, and maybe save some wear on the motor and transmission. But really, you wont know what is right for you until you have tried a couple different things. I think everyone here will agree that personal experience will tell you everything you need to know. Try out either of the 4:88's or 5:29's, you wont really go wrong either way.

gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge. Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!! 98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S*t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD. THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS

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Rock Star
Posts:2375

09/16/2007 1:12 PM
Great points ChevyMan... One small item to consider though... if you're running large tires, you should consider that the deeper you go in gears, the weaker they get. It's not a really big deal, but if you're running 40+" tires and 5.xx:1+ gears, they do get weaker than gear units that are taller. Again, not a huge problem, but something to always consider. Anyhow... what the heck is wrong with smackin' Mom around a bit at the dinner table? [barf3] Hehehehe...

Rick Webster Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '74 FJ40 Land Cruiser "Measure once, cut twice"

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Rock Star
Posts:2375

09/16/2007 1:18 PM
quote: Originally posted by fourwd1 pic test Image Uploaded To Thread: [img]http://www.4x4review.com/discussions2/uploaded/fourwd1/2007913174750_0702or_30pc.jpg[/img] Fourwd1 - I fixed the filename of your image so that it would work. Most web servers don't like to render image filenames that have special characters, spaces, plus signs, etc. That's why this one didn't render... Edited by Webby4x4 - Forum Admin

Rick Webster Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '74 FJ40 Land Cruiser "Measure once, cut twice"

Lift & Lockers
Posts:943

09/16/2007 2:47 PM
quote: Originally posted by webby4x4 Great points ChevyMan... One small item to consider though... if you're running large tires, you should consider that the deeper you go in gears, the weaker they get. It's not a really big deal, but if you're running 40+" tires and 5.xx:1+ gears, they do get weaker than gear units that are taller. Again, not a huge problem, but something to always consider. This whole weaker thing is highly debatable. If you use your theory that it is stronger with taller gears you leave out the part that more twisting and shear force are placed on pinion shaft as more torque is applied to make same power to ground with taller gears. (I have seen pinion heads twisted off) In my life I have only seen a few pinions actual break gear teeth off and one was setup wrong and ran too tight and hot and the other was in a drag car whose rear diff was not up to 6K dump launches with slicks. A bigger rear axle a$$embly fixed that and its 5.38 gears lasted many years and through several engines. High quality gears are made out of really good metal with a yield well in excess of 160,000 PSI and few teeth on pinion also means thicker teeth too. One reason why they do gear ratio ring/pinion combos the way they do is to maintain maximum strength in power transfer area. This is why you see 7, 8 or 9 tooth pinions with deep axle ratios rather than more teeth that are thinner.

-------------------------- Visit the SnoMan at www.thesnoman.com

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Rock Star
Posts:2375

09/16/2007 3:06 PM
It's not debatable. I wasn't talking about the shear strength of nuts and bolts, or the twisting force applied to driveshafts. I was speaking specifically about the ring and pinion gear. Yes... you could start to talk about all of the other environmental factors that play into it, but if you take a 3.73:1 gear set and place it next to a 5.88:1 gear set (made for the same axle), you'll notice that there are more teeth in the deeper gears, and, since you can't just make the deeper gear bigger (obviously), then it becomes inherently weaker - e.g., there is less metal on the deeper ring gear. I know this for fact because I've interviewed and spoken with multiple engineers, PR people and managers at several gear manufacturing companies. These people have shown me results of scientifically controlled load and stress tests that are designed to bring a part to failure under controlled environments. Deeper gears are weaker than taller gears. Rick

Rick Webster Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '74 FJ40 Land Cruiser "Measure once, cut twice"

Lift & Lockers
Posts:943

09/16/2007 3:35 PM
You are taken this out of context. because while the gear might yield with a 5.38 (not likely if stock axles are used because they will go first) the amount of force it is applying to rear axle will be higher (because by virtue of deeper ratio and smaller diameter pinion it has more LEVERAGE over ring gear. Yes they are few teeth but they are thicker plus this is a hypoid drive and it is not a straight cut bevel gear and it has a larger contact area than a bevel gear. If they were as weak as you imply they would not make and sell some of the ratios that they do.

-------------------------- Visit the SnoMan at www.thesnoman.com

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Rock Star
Posts:2375

09/16/2007 3:59 PM
SnoMan - I'm not taking it out of context, I wrote the context here. You're one of the smartest guys on the board here, with lots of experience, but I sincerely doubt that scientific studies performed by degreed engineers in controlled labs are wrong, or are lying to me. I've personally seen their load machines and I've personally looked at their data that reports deeper gears for the same application fail sooner than taller gears. RW

Rick Webster Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '74 FJ40 Land Cruiser "Measure once, cut twice"

Lift & Lockers
Posts:943

09/16/2007 6:44 PM
I am dealing with the shear strength of the steel in gears and cross sectional areas and such. . When they design a drive axle it is designed so that generally stock axle breaks before ring and pinion does, (kinda a fuse). If you find yourself actually braking 5.38 gears, you need a bigger axle, not a taller ratio. The deep gears are as not as weak as you think. They do transmitt more torque multiplcation so that can load teeth more but them you are getting more wheel torque too. Yes in theory it is a bit weaker in tooth area but even weaker is still VERY strong.

-------------------------- Visit the SnoMan at www.thesnoman.com

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/17/2007 6:23 PM
quote: Originally posted by webby4x4 quote: Originally posted by fourwd1 pic test Image Uploaded To Thread: [img]http://www.4x4review.com/discussions2/uploaded/fourwd1/2007913174750_0702or_30pc.jpg[/img] Fourwd1 - I fixed the filename of your image so that it would work. Most web servers don't like to render image filenames that have special characters, spaces, plus signs, etc. That's why this one didn't render... Edited by Webby4x4 - Forum Admin cool, I'll give it another shot soon as I fix the stuff I broke wheeling this weekend. There's a big puddle under the rear diff [:(!] But it was worth it, did some new Red rated trails [^], totally awesome.

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

Forum Admin, Magazine Editor

Rock Star
Posts:2375

09/17/2007 8:23 PM
quote: Originally posted by fourwd1 But it was worth it, did some new Red rated trails [^], totally awesome. Oh man! You have to send some pictures!!! Hey, what part of the states do you live in? I was thinking about getting a group of our readers together for a trip. Rick

Rick Webster Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '74 FJ40 Land Cruiser "Measure once, cut twice"

ChevyMan0784 User is Offline

Lift & Lockers
Posts:699

09/19/2007 2:18 PM
Wow, I missed a bit here... lol. I do agree with you on the deeper the gear the weaker the gear. I just failed to mention that. That is one problem I have run into with going up to 5:13's on my truck...... Everyone agrees about it (that I know).

gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge. Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!! 98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S*t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD. THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/20/2007 6:48 PM
quote: Originally posted by webby4x4 quote: Originally posted by fourwd1 But it was worth it, did some new Red rated trails [^], totally awesome. Oh man! You have to send some pictures!!! Hey, what part of the states do you live in? I was thinking about getting a group of our readers together for a trip. Rick Only got a few pics before I slipped walking on the rocks and damaged the digicam. Nobody else was taking pics. I'm in MD, but wheel in PA and VA.

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/20/2007 6:55 PM
Image Uploaded To Thread: [img]http://www.4x4review.com/discussions2/uploaded/fourwd1/2007920185523_ed52ca9b.jpg[/img]

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/20/2007 7:03 PM
Image Uploaded To Thread: [img]http://www.4x4review.com/discussions2/uploaded/fourwd1/20079201936_0702or_13_.jpg[/img] Better [^]

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/20/2007 7:05 PM
OK, a little spare time to play with posting pics. Image Uploaded To Thread: [img]http://www.4x4review.com/discussions2/uploaded/fourwd1/200792019551_ed5aad7d.jpg[/img]

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/20/2007 7:08 PM
Image Uploaded To Thread: [img]http://www.4x4review.com/discussions2/uploaded/fourwd1/200792019835_ed52bf36.jpg[/img] another

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

Forum Admin, Magazine Editor

Rock Star
Posts:2375

09/21/2007 7:46 PM
Awesome! I really dig mini trucks... You can build the snot out of them and their wheel base is perfect for rock crawling. Nice ride man!

Rick Webster Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '74 FJ40 Land Cruiser "Measure once, cut twice"

Street Queen
Posts:57

09/21/2007 8:22 PM
Thanks. You really can build and wheel these things. Before I bought it it was someones DD commuter truck. Running boards and everything. I could post more pics if you'd like.

- as seen in Four Wheeler magazine July 2006, Off-Road magazine Feb 2007 '84 4Runner SR5 - ARBed 5.29's F&R, 4.7 & 2.28 t-cases, drv trn lift, Chevy's, 30 spline Longs, BudBuilt skid, 36" TSLs...

Forum Admin, Magazine Editor

Rock Star
Posts:2375

09/21/2007 9:36 PM
Absolutely! Post them in our pictures forum at http://www.4x4review.com/discussions2/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=89 Just start a new thread and dump as many there as you'd like. We'd love to see them. Rick

Rick Webster Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - '74 FJ40 Land Cruiser "Measure once, cut twice"