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Matthew Reed
Bone Stock
Posts:11
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| 02/02/2005 8:08 PM |
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I have a 1992 S-10 Blazer V6 W type engine.
When I go to engauage my 4wd High, it will work for a while then all of a sudden quit for no reason at all. Usually I have to unhook the battery for 5 mintues to reset the 4wd system, then it usually works properly again, FOR A LITTLE WHILE anyways!!
Also when the 4 wheel HIGH dont work I can usually get it to work in 4 wheel LOW if I put it in Netral and psuh the 4 wheel low side on the electronic switch that controls my 4wd system.
Also sometimes when I push the 4 wheel LOW when I do this instead of the 4 wheel low lighting up BOTH the 4 wheel HIGH AND LOW lights come on.
We have tried replacing the 4WD control module located on the computer mounting braket, but this didn't fix the problem.
The transfer case motor works OK, when the system is working properly!! So I would not think it would be the motor causing the problem. As its just a motor and if that was it, it would do it all the time!!
ANY SOLUTIONS ARE GREATLY APPRECIATED. PLEASE HELP!!
THANKS!! |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 02/02/2005 8:37 PM |
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See the testing procedures I posted at:
http://www.4x4review.com/discussions2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=116
Hopefully this will help you diagnose and fix your problem.
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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Matthew Reed
Bone Stock
Posts:11
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| 02/03/2005 4:43 AM |
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Ok, I will try this, but i have no schematics on this system.
I have a service book, but they tell VERY VERY LITTLE about the 4WD components and gives no wiring diagrams from what I can see.
As I use a Chilitons Service book.
Wish me luck... Thanks for the info...
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 02/03/2005 1:58 PM |
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You might be able to find a scanned wiring diagram on the 'net for your truck, or at least a similar year.
Let us know what you find out.
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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Matthew Reed
Bone Stock
Posts:11
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| 02/06/2005 4:01 PM |
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Hi,
Well i tried your idea and found out that its a Code 2.
I have seen your solutions for a code 2 however i am not familiar with the wiring diagrams for my vehicle.
But i still have had no luck in finding and wiring diagram for my vehicle.
Any ideas...
THANKS for the continued help.
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Matthew Reed
Bone Stock
Posts:11
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| 02/07/2005 5:44 AM |
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Hi,
Well heres the complete issue. I reset the code using your method of resetting the 4wd system. And it worked. it reset it back to a code 1. Which is normal.
But after using 4wd drivefor a while all of a sudden itwill stop working. I mean the 4wd HIGH will COMPLETELY stop working. But the 4wd LOW will usually work if I shift to neutral and push for 4 wheel LOW.
Then it will shoot Code 2 out of it after the 4wd kicks out.
We have already replaced the encoder once. We think its a shorted or open wire in the circuit causing the trip outs. is that possible??
But turning the switch off DONT RESET IT, only the method you refered me to will reset it, but only untill system messes up again..
Is there ANY more EASY ideas I could try before attempting the very hard, like testing and tracing all the 4wd system wiring??
Any ideas would be appreciated!!
THANKS!!!!!!! |
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Matthew Reed
Bone Stock
Posts:11
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| 02/14/2005 8:11 PM |
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Please help me out on this, please!!
Thanks everyone! |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 02/14/2005 8:16 PM |
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Matt - I'm personally out of ideas on this one.
Anyone else have ideas?
RW |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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albrita
Bone Stock
Posts:6
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| 10/30/2006 3:04 PM |
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| Have identical problem with 2002 Blazer with 4x4 on/off ... must be in neutral, then 2 hi and 4 lo work. (Never 4 hi). Any help would be appreciated. |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 10/30/2006 5:31 PM |
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| Have you guys tried replacing the switch? They are known to have a pretty good failure rate/ Push Bottun 4x4 is something that should have never gone mainstream
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Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
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albrita
Bone Stock
Posts:6
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| 10/30/2006 5:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SnoMan
Have you guys tried replacing the switch? They are known to have a pretty good failure rate/ Push Bottun 4x4 is something that should have never gone mainstream
Haven't tried much of anthing other than re-seat plug on encoder motor. Been looking all over and see this problem with all kind of maybe, but since I have identical symptoms would think someone came up with a final fix. |
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Matthew Reed
Bone Stock
Posts:11
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| 10/30/2006 6:22 PM |
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Hi everyone,
I have ohm-ed my switch and it works properly. I personally think its either a problem with the Transfer case, or the motor itself on the transfer case.
i also heard to replace the motor LOOOOOKS EASILY, but is actually a pain in the ass, since you have to unhook both the drive shaft and differential shaft in order to gain access to remove the motor!!!
My father asked a dealer and according to them they thought it was the motor...
We decided not to try and fix it since i only use the 4wd on a rare occasion...
I have also heard one people who have had similar problems and they had to REWIRE the whole circuit!!! Which is WAY beyond my patience and need of the 4wd!!!!
Its easier just to call a friend and have them tow me out if I was to get stuck in the snow!!!!
Since I would mainly use it on Boy Scouting trips (on road that aren't plowed), we look after one another and pull ones out who need pulling out anyways!!!! Plus all of our leaders including myself are equipped with cell phones also, so that helps too!!!
I was hoping for a EASY fix, but now i am seeing there is really no EASY fix, and would probably cost $1000's of dollars and the vehicle is beyond its life for that kind of repair!!!
Its going on 210,000 miles and PROBABLY running on the end of its life...
Thanks Everyone,
Matthew Reed
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albrita
Bone Stock
Posts:6
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| 10/30/2006 6:37 PM |
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| Thanks for getting back on the issue! Unfortunately high up in mountains we need the 4x4 7 out of 12 months a year. Got hit with 2 feet last week already. That's when this came up! Got 2 4x4s down right now! Transfer case in F250 plow truck is out also. Life is good!
Thanks!
If anyone has fixed one of these, with neutral required, 2hi and 4lo then working and no 4hi at all, let me know. Otherwise I'm going after the encoder motor which doen't look like fun as Mathew pointed out. |
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Matthew Reed
Bone Stock
Posts:11
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| 10/30/2006 7:15 PM |
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Hi Again,
Here's something else to try... If you DO manage to get the transfer Case Motor out try engaging 4wd hi by Turing the shaft that the motor normally turns...
If it turns hard or don't turn at all you have 2 options...
have your transfer case rebuilt our buy a new or used one...
As your transfer case is bad...
If you can manage to engage 4wd hi MANUALLY by turning the shaft the motor usually turns 99% chance the motor is bad and need replacing...
However DONT think that motor is not cheap, as it ISN'T its actually quite EXPENSIVE $150 and up for that darn thing!!!!
See its not really disconnecting the shafts that hard, its where they mount the god d**n transfer case to the frame that's hard, as they have a few bolts in a VERY TIGHT area to access!!!
But if you can take it out its MUCH easier working on it on the ground then on your head!!!
BEWARE it case itself is filled with transmission fluid take care not to loose any if you decide to take it apart!!!!
Plus also WARNING dont take the case apart unless your experiened as you wont even have 2wd without the transfer case!!!!!
However the motor (from what I heard dealer tell my father) is that you can remove the motor WITHOUT loosing any fluid as its DONT go into the case!!!!
Hope this helps... |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 10/30/2006 8:43 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Matthew Reed
Hi everyone,
I have ohm-ed my switch and it works properly. I personally think its either a problem with the Transfer case, or the motor itself on the transfer case.
The problem with ohming the switch is that it does not alwasy reflect how it operates when a load is placed on it because a ohm meter places very little load on it. (a few mili amps at most) I suggested the switch because they are know to be troublesome even on newer models. I have the wiring diagrams and such for a 98 on my site in members area and it should be similiar to yours because body style is the same. |
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Visit the SnoMan at
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Matthew Reed
Bone Stock
Posts:11
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| 10/31/2006 5:22 AM |
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Well I can try your suggestion however if this don't work you cannot return it due to it being a electrical device. Those switches are not cheap either... Around $25 a piece!!!!
Yes I do agree with you those switches are known for failure, and once during a recall my dealer noticed it being stuck in 4wd and replaced the switch free of charge!!! Witch did cure the problem...
Another FAMOUS one and for all those out there that own a 92 blazer still BEWARE of the antilock brake system...
In 1992 these darn experimental units they used on them (since anti-lock) was new at that time to technology.
They can cause your brakes NOT TO WORK!!!! I almost got into a accident because of them...
DISABLE THEM Just unplug the antilock motor from the Antilock computer unit!!!! Its a tiny 2 pin plug (there should be 2 of them, unplug one, try it and if you don't get your speed readings, unplug the other one and replug the first one back in...
DONT UNPLUG anything else or you wont be able to read your speed your driving, as unplugging anything else disables the speed senors!!!
Yes it will trigger an idiot light (your antilock light) will come on as a problem light, but ignore it, its FOR YOUR OWN SAFTEY!!!!!
Trust me the old antilock systems are FULL OF BUGS and if this happens to you it could very well cause an accident!!!!
Yes the antilock brake system what it will do its when you goto stop, and you hit the brakes, the darn antilock motor will kick in an it will keep you from pushing down on the brake petal!!!!
However just remember you do have one chance in hell if this happens, ALWAYS remember your emergency brake petal (PARKING BRAKES)!!!!!
Always thanks for the idea, and I will try it as that's a easy fix if this is the case!!!!
THANKS!!!
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Dan Pitts
Body Lift
Posts:232
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| 10/31/2006 6:19 AM |
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| so do you guys want to know what is wrong with it. my dad had the same exact problem with his 94 blazer. they replaced the switch and it seemed to work for a while but then they would have to go back and reset the computer to get it to work again. so he decided to take ot to his brother in law my uncle who i work for now. they repleced the motor and we have never had trouble with it again. it seems the motor just slips out or something. |
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Danny Pitts
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lift it, fat chicks can't jump |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 10/31/2006 6:52 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan Pitts
so do you guys want to know what is wrong with it. my dad had the same exact problem with his 94 blazer. they replaced the switch and it seemed to work for a while but then they would have to go back and reset the computer to get it to work again. so he decided to take ot to his brother in law my uncle who i work for now. they repleced the motor and we have never had trouble with it again. it seems the motor just slips out or something.
Push button 4x4 is troublesome at best and was only created to sell high profit 4x4 SUV's to people that would not otherwise buy one. They are known to be more trouble some the older they get and generally not cheap to fix either. |
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Visit the SnoMan at
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albrita
Bone Stock
Posts:6
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| 10/31/2006 7:25 AM |
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Well have a friend in Chicago land that has a buddy at GM parts and another Chevy dealer buddy so he is calling today for hopefully some inside info. Found RPO is NP1 which is part designator for type Encoder Motor. Inide glove box on white label, at least on newer stuff. Can get the remanufactured encoder motor at RockAuto.com for $109 + core $25 + shipping. Found outfit on ebay with lifetime guaranteed encoder motor for $118 + shipping. From everything I can read and find I'm be going after the motor unless I hear differnt today. Think many of these aren't fixed because of expense [think GM is ($479)] and real pain in *ss replacing. Now more concerned about Dex-Coolant problem, I ran into while researching this, in GM crap. Buddy said it is a real big problem and class action in motion against GM. Stuff is supposed to be 100K anti freeze but turns to brown/rusty sludge, plugs heater core and everything else. Heater core blows out and engine overheats and blows out intake gaskets. Am heading to NAPA shortly for new stuff and flush system. Problem is in every GM for last 5-6 years I think. Will post back when have info or a fix. Awful cold out there right now so it's going to wait until I don't freeze to death.
quote:
Originally posted by SnoMan
quote:
Originally posted by Dan Pitts
so do you guys want to know what is wrong with it. my dad had the same exact problem with his 94 blazer. they replaced the switch and it seemed to work for a while but then they would have to go back and reset the computer to get it to work again. so he decided to take ot to his brother in law my uncle who i work for now. they repleced the motor and we have never had trouble with it again. it seems the motor just slips out or something.
Push button 4x4 is troublesome at best and was only created to sell high profit 4x4 SUV's to people that would not otherwise buy one. They are known to be more trouble some the older they get and generally not cheap to fix either.
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 10/31/2006 8:19 PM |
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| The problem with dexi is not what it seems. I have used it for years with no problems at all and even my overflow tanks are clean as new. Where the real problem lies in is the fact that modern GM engines have a higher mixed metal content than before which stresses coolant a LOT more. Dexi was GM's attempt to stay with 50/50 coolant ratio to save a bundle of money but it failed. Not because of Dexi but because 50/50 is not enough unless you change coolant really often. Water is very reactive and the less of it the better. I have run 60/40 or better for years and I have had no issues. My 89 burb has not had a coolant change for 7 or 8 years and it is clean as a whistle. It is 70/30. I have a old JD tractor that I put new coolant in 20 years ago and it looks like new and no sludge at all (It is around 80/20 because 50 year old raditors are expensive to replace). It runs cool to and does not even have a water pump (thermo siphon) Lot of misconceptions about car running cooler with water because glycol is densor and conducts heat out of block better and temp sensor measures coolant not actaul block temps and if coolant appears a bit warmer at times it is because it is taking more heat out of block. My 70/30 burb has been up pikes peak 3 times and across the rockies a dozen times and seen temps from minus 50 to over 105 and even in extreme heat it has never exceeded 210 in 17 years. Also (this will really floor you)I run 7 to 9 PSI caps on my cars too as it eases strain of parts and helps prevent leaks with age and higher coolant mixtures boil at higher temps to so less pressure is needed. A big reason for a high pressure cap is that 50/50 or less mixture has a higher surface tension which means when it contacts a hot surface, (like aroound exhaust ports and combustion chambers) it forms a gas buble barrier from coolant trying to boil and this slows heat transfer and higher pressure helps keep it in balance somewhat. Higher antifreeze ratios have lower surface tension and between this and higher density and abilty to conduct heat gas less and work fine at lower pressures with the added benfit of much longer coolant life. It is a win win but many are stuck on 50/50, just like 87 octane. |
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Visit the SnoMan at
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Haywire
Bone Stock
Posts:3
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| 11/01/2006 7:59 PM |
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I am currently having the exact same problem, and my only worries after diagnosing it is HOW OFTEN AM I GOING TO HAVE THIS PROBLEM??? I am seriously considering going into the business "Creative Engineering" a MANUAL LEVER / BOOT / LOCKOUT arrangement to take the place of these miserable pushbutton switches, TCCM (Transfer Case Control Module) and Encoder Motor!!! Well, here is the good news, Mr. Reed. (OR BAD, you decide...)
1.) Because your system goes into 4lo, your transfer case is CERTAINLY GOOD. Your TCCM is also o.k. - it is a computer - ever heard of "garbage in, garbage out"?... well it is being fed "garbage" back to it from a rotary switch "permanently attached" to your encoder motor. The actual "rotating motor" is o.k., but every time the computer receives incorrect info from this switch during a shift, it adds to an internal "counter" or "error log" -if you will... that when it hits a magical maximum allowable number, (I've read somewhere 4 counts per error, max. 32 -then you're done until you reset the TCCM) - it Purposely prevents you from entering 4hi... It is programmed to do this to prevent damage to the t-case in case the stupid motor would continue to run and try to enter 4lo at highway speeds (yuck!) After the computer "decides" it can no longer rely on the information being fed to it from the encoder switch (ATTACHED to the ENCODER MOTOR ASSEMBLY), it only allows for shifting when in neutral (no damage can occur) and only is able to run the shift motor to each extreme (2hi, and 4lo) - the computer doesn't have to care "where" the rotary shifter is, only that it can run it to either extreme, engaging either 4lo or 2hi...
Here are my 8itches: 1.) The actual motor that runs the shift rod in the xfer case RARELY FAILS... think abt. it.. you can still enter 4lo... 2.) The rotary switch is not available seperately!!! STUPID, STUPID, STUPID!, The switch itself could probably be changed WITHOUT removing the driveshaft, and should cost MUCH less than the whole motor... it is 100% plastic! Instead, I gotta buy the whole assembly and wait for the next switch to get electrically "dirty" and start feeding intermittent spikes to the TCCM again and recording errors...
Oh, yeah...the same rotary switch reports back to the INDICATOR LAMPS what mode the x-fer case is in...and we KNOW your switch, AND MINE, are totally screwed up, because sometimes they light up BOTH the 4hi AND 4lo lamps even when the vehicle is definitely in 4lo...no wonder the computer is confused! It's physically impossible for this xfer case to be in both 4hi and 4lo at the same time, but the poor computer (and dash lamps) is being told so by that miserable switch!
Here is SOME good news... I wasn't so hasty to believe the manual (mine is 1996) about the necessity of removing the driveshaft. With the right tools (extensions, etc.) and a little patience tilting the encoder motor housing just right, and willingness to temporarily squeeze the metal collar on the driveshaft, I got mine (Encoder motor) out without removing the shaft, and no damage - took abt. 10 min's ;-) I guess I'll bite the bullet tomorrow and pick up a rebuilt encoder motor assembly (SOMEBODY is finding switches to rebuild them with!!!) - I'm choosing one with a Lifetime warranty, and fellas, I'm-a-savin' that RECEIPT! Hope this rant helped someone! I feel better! |
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albrita
Bone Stock
Posts:6
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| 11/02/2006 5:34 AM |
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| Pretty much my conclusion! Disconnected the battery to reset and it worked. Now question is how long. Says switch is fine, but leaves one guessing on TCCM or motor. Curious if this is optical encoder or magnetic. These Cardone motors through RockAuto are re-manufactured but don't see lifetime against them. Definetly know garbage in, garbage out. Been working on computers since 1969.
Info on r&r is great! Thanks I'm going to try it....thanks! Know one thing for sure. The Blazer and my Monte SS are the last GM vehicles I'll ever own. 84 El Camino,,,crap. 91 Grand Prix,,,crap.
02 Blazer,,,crap. Jeff Gordon Special Edition Monte SS is nice ride but rarely leaves garage so not sure it's crap yet. |
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Haywire
Bone Stock
Posts:3
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| 11/02/2006 4:02 PM |
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Mine's on order at Autozone (only vendor with "LLT" ...Limited Lifetime warranty....probably means a one-time "free" replacement under warranty...not a "TRUE" Lifetime warranty... heck, that could be 1, 2, or 3 winters here in PA, whether you use the 4WD or not!
The encoder switch used for feedback on the side of the transfer case motor is NOT magnetic hall-effect, OR photocouplers - that would have made too much sense! Instead, GM opted to use a rotary switch, like the ones used in early VCRs. It is nothing more than a set of (probably brass-coated...not even gold plated...though by the price of these, you would think it should be) contacts rotating around rubbing on a set of embedded contacts in the bottom of the plastic case to "inform" the TCCM what mode the 4wd is in. The TCCM also is pre-programmed to "know", based on the gear reduction, how long it should take to see a response from the 4hi position of the switch (middle position of the transfer case). So, if it takes too long to get there, the TCCM throws error codes, and puts you back in 2hi. After too many, you're locked out until you "reset" by pulling power from it.
These kind of switches fail regularly in VCRs, causing them to "eat tapes" etc. because the computer is fooled into thinking the tape is fully wound back into the case, when in fact it is not, etc. If they fail indoors that easily, just from cigarette smoke, or coal heated homes, etc. - think of how doomed this switch is on the bottom of your vehicle! They are made pretty water-tight, with o-rings everywhere, including where it mounts to the xfer case, but it is NOT hermetically sealed, because it has to rotate! With high humidity in the air up here in Pennsylvania, NY, etc. - they are doomed to oxidize, and fail repeatedly . That is why we see complaints like "I have already replaced it once", and "I hardly ever use 4wd and it still failed". MY OPINION is that time exposed to the atmosphere is "oxidizing" or "rusting" these switches internally! I could cut one apart to prove it, but then they might not give me the core value!
A rotating wheel with slots cut into it that interrupts a beam of infrared light (optic encoder) would have been a MUCH better idea, as it would have been immune to humidity and the resulting oxidation that I believe is happening to these switches. Even most VCR manufacturers wised up to this in the mid to late '80s. Wake up, GM!
You really gotta laugh at their commercials, though - where they toot their own horn about their precision engineering. Kinda like the "Lonely Maytag repairman"... when you see manufacturers touting their "superiority" and "reliability" - RUN! Wonder why GM Corporate is in financial doo-doo? Hmmm, did it maybe start happening in the mid to late 1990s???
I've had many older GMs with good luck, but I have about had it with this blazer! I have had to resolder the PC board in the LED 3rd brake light, replace idler arms, heater core, idler pulley, fuel tank vent, then a month later the fuel pump itself, just to name a few...Thank God so far I have been able to save the labor charges by doing all the work myself!...arrghhh I could go on and on....Sorry I wrote a daggonnne BOOK again! |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 11/02/2006 6:25 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by albrita
Pretty much my conclusion! Disconnected the battery to reset and it worked. Now question is how long. Says switch is fine, but leaves one guessing on TCCM or motor. Curious if this is optical encoder or magnetic. These Cardone motors through RockAuto are re-manufactured but don't see lifetime against them. Definetly know garbage in, garbage out. Been working on computers since 1969.
Info on r&r is great! Thanks I'm going to try it....thanks! Know one thing for sure. The Blazer and my Monte SS are the last GM vehicles I'll ever own. 84 El Camino,,,crap. 91 Grand Prix,,,crap.
02 Blazer,,,crap. Jeff Gordon Special Edition Monte SS is nice ride but rarely leaves garage so not sure it's crap yet.
I have a 89 4x4 burb that I bought new and it has 180K miles on it now and it has NEVER left me stranded or broken down on more than a dozen cross country trips in temps as low as minus 30 at temps while traveling 100's of miles or as high as 105+. It has seen 40 below several times and 50 below a few times too. Still runs great and get better MPG than it should for its size amd its optional 40 gallon tank give it 600 mile plus range when needed. 500+ miles is a easy even when pushing it and it normally takes 300 to 350 miles to show about 1/2 tank on a trip.Most gass I have ever put in it when it was on E once was 34 gallons. Now it shuttle my daughter to college on weenknd a few time a month at about 160 to 180 miles a round trip and I can make 3 of them with reserve to spare if need be without a refill though I usually do two. Only major part changed was the water pump about 5 years ago. It is still pretty cherry as we only use it for trips now and usually not at all for a few months in winter when salt is out. Except for a old 79 J20 that I have owned for over 21 years it has been the most reliable SUV/4x4 I have ever owned and I have owned about 10 now. (the reason I still own it is because it has been so trouble free, it must have been built on a good day) Newer is not always better with trucks these days. It will retire when I do and maybe not even then. |
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Matthew Reed
Bone Stock
Posts:11
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| 11/02/2006 7:44 PM |
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Thanks for the information haywire... This just goes to confirm my suspicions about the encoder motor on the transfer case!!!!
Now there is more more issue, and I have a GOOD feeling now that its being caused by the same Problem as Haywire described...
if I reset the TCCM and with some patience, I can get it to engage in 4wd hi. However When you go to shift into Drive its makes a HELL OF A GRINDING noise...
Its like it shifted, but either to far or to less. Then its a 8itch to get it to come back out.... However if you switch to 4w Lo then to off it will kick out OK... I know i have only done this once, as this must be EXTREAMLY hard on the transfer case...
But nothing got damaged as we didn't let it set there and grind either.... We disengaged it as soon as it started doing that!!!!
I BET the computer (4wd encorder computer mounted on the VCM bracket) recieved a garbage signal and tought it was in when it wasn't!!!!!
Thanks for the ideas however and all the help!!!
See this is how the darn sercurity features on 98 trucks work too as my father at one time tried to start his truck and the resistor GM used had changed resistance SO MUCH that the computer must have thought he was useing the wrong key to start it.
There for the computer shutoff the gas going to the engine!!!!
The dealer installed a VERY SIMPLE thing to fix the issue!!!! They installed a varistor that can be EASILY set to the nessary resistance. This was so if that changed resistant they could always redial in the correct resistance again and get things working again EASILY!!!
So this is for people who own 98 GM trucks out there that have that security feature on them!!!!
Thanks for all the information!!!! |
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Haywire
Bone Stock
Posts:3
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| 11/07/2006 8:32 AM |
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Hey, all... my rebuilt motor came in at Autozone Fri. 11/03/06, and I installed it that evening. Getting it back in there was definitely more difficult than removing the original, and I actually ended up finding it easier to grind away 1/16th inch off one of the security torx-head bolts that mount the encoder switch to the encoder motor than to remove the front driveshaft. After then resetting the TCCM, I engaged all 3 positins 2hi, 4hi, and 4lo at least 6 times flawlessly. It actually shifts quicker and more postively than it ever has since I've owned the vehicle.
I was not impressed much with the Cardone reman. motor unit, though. It looked well-used, and even the switch housing appeared to be used, so I don't know how they "rebuilt" it... It DID have plenty of fresh grease coming out around the black encoder switch engagement protrusion, so I assume they cut it apart and at least cleaned it before reassembling it... I was tempted to remove the switch from the housing to inspect it before installing just to see how they did it... it may be possible to redo the next one myself, and just pack it totally full of heavy grease to create the seal where the factory epoxy was. For all I know that may be exaclty all that was done on this "rebuilt" unit for $170 !!! Definitely I will keep that receipt handy!
More bad news...Talked today to a fellow who owns a '98 with less than 50K miles, and he's on his 4th transfer case motor. I believe that lends credence to my suspicion that it doesn't matter how many miles, how it is used, and whether or NOT you use the 4wd often. Time corrodes these switches and there is nothing you can do about it. The only permanent fix, as far as I can see is for the aftermarket to step up and offer a shift lever that sticks through the floor to the side rod on this xfer case to use it manually and get RID of the gear-reduction motor, encoder switch, many many wires, Transfer Case Control Module, and 3 pushbutton switches and lights, and associated wiring!!! SHEESHHH, all that just to put it in 4hi???
(Classic case of over-engineering something into oblivion!)
I engaged 4hi EASILY with an crescent wrench from under the vehicle with that motor assembly removed, - The np233 engages easily, smoothly, and has a nice positive "click" - If this were my vehicle (and I intended to keep it) I would seriously consider cutting a hole in the floorboard at the appropriate place, and come up with some specs for my local machine shop to convert this to manual 4wd!
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albrita
Bone Stock
Posts:6
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| 11/09/2006 1:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Haywire
Hey, all... my rebuilt motor came in at Autozone Fri. 11/03/06, and I installed it that evening. Getting it back in there was definitely more difficult than removing the original, and I actually ended up finding it easier to grind away 1/16th inch off one of the security torx-head bolts that mount the encoder switch to the encoder motor than to remove the front driveshaft. After then resetting the TCCM, I engaged all 3 positins 2hi, 4hi, and 4lo at least 6 times flawlessly. It actually shifts quicker and more postively than it ever has since I've owned the vehicle.
I was not impressed much with the Cardone reman. motor unit, though. It looked well-used, and even the switch housing appeared to be used, so I don't know how they "rebuilt" it... It DID have plenty of fresh grease coming out around the black encoder switch engagement protrusion, so I assume they cut it apart and at least cleaned it before reassembling it... I was tempted to remove the switch from the housing to inspect it before installing just to see how they did it... it may be possible to redo the next one myself, and just pack it totally full of heavy grease to create the seal where the factory epoxy was. For all I know that may be exaclty all that was done on this "rebuilt" unit for $170 !!! Definitely I will keep that receipt handy!
More bad news...Talked today to a fellow who owns a '98 with less than 50K miles, and he's on his 4th transfer case motor. I believe that lends credence to my suspicion that it doesn't matter how many miles, how it is used, and whether or NOT you use the 4wd often. Time corrodes these switches and there is nothing you can do about it. The only permanent fix, as far as I can see is for the aftermarket to step up and offer a shift lever that sticks through the floor to the side rod on this xfer case to use it manually and get RID of the gear-reduction motor, encoder switch, many many wires, Transfer Case Control Module, and 3 pushbutton switches and lights, and associated wiring!!! SHEESHHH, all that just to put it in 4hi???
(Classic case of over-engineering something into oblivion!)
I engaged 4hi EASILY with an crescent wrench from under the vehicle with that motor assembly removed, - The np233 engages easily, smoothly, and has a nice positive "click" - If this were my vehicle (and I intended to keep it) I would seriously consider cutting a hole in the floorboard at the appropriate place, and come up with some specs for my local machine shop to convert this to manual 4wd!
Should have used RockAuto at $109...$25 core. It was Cardone also
Also in theory the guy on ebay has lifetime warranty at $118 plus s&h
After resetting this one with battery disco, this hasn't come back and have tried it half dozen times despite no new snow! Still hanging in there, so suspect it will shoot craps when we get 3 feet of slushy snow so I can lay under this in the slop! Always optimistic you know!
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 01/25/2007 8:17 PM |
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well i got a 97 chevy 4x4 pickup and i havent had problems with the 4x4 not working (other than the fact that you hear a really loud clunk when it switches into 4wd), high or low, i wasnt lucky enough for something like that to break on me...
well, long story short, my transmisson radomly burst into flames while we were on the highway (about 4 years back when i couldnt drive...dad was driven) luckily we had a fire estinguisher handy. well we replaced the transmisson, still had problems, replaced it again, still havin problems, and we replaced it again and finally! one that works!!! i think the problem was we were gettin rebuilt transmissions and we didnt get the best one each time... heh.
well im still having problems with my transmission, it runs rough the first time you go through the gears, but after it switches gears around 45 mph, i can completely stop the truck, and accelerate as quite as a mouse, and pretty quickly too, it spins a tire decently with 31's
well, not that i know much about transmissions or the 4 wheel drive problem, but i can tell yah (from just my opinion) that transmissions for chevy around this year aren't the best, the ones that come stock with the truck. |
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Dan Pitts
Body Lift
Posts:232
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| 01/26/2007 11:28 AM |
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| maybe you should stop the smokey burn out but thats justa guess. just kidding |
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Danny Pitts
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lift it, fat chicks can't jump |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/26/2007 1:27 PM |
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Hey Pmipmatt - Are you running an aftermarket tranny cooler by any chance?
I'm wondering if the problem isn't by overly-cooled trans fluid, or low trans fluid...
(and as Danny points out, your John Force imitations might not be helping either [)])
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 01/27/2007 12:58 PM |
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nah im not runnin any kind of aftermarket cooler just the stock stuff, im actually not really worried that it runs kinda rough the first time through, i can live with it. and as for burnin out and accelerating quick, barely ever do it. and i just got the truck about 2 months ago and before i had the truck my dad was driven it and he drives pretty slow... but this transmission has ben doin this forever and it hasnt screwd us over on the highway (yet) so im happy.
the burnin out thing happend only once when i got new 31" tires (showin off to sum of my buddies... heh)
but im pretty much not worried about it. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/27/2007 6:52 PM |
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that is really peculiar though, that it runs rough until it makes it through all of the gears at least once, then it's fine.
When was the last time you had the tranny serviced (e.g. filter / fluid change, band tightening, etc.)?
P.S. I was just ribbin' you about the burnout thing. [)]
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 01/28/2007 12:20 PM |
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| im not very sure, because im not the one who had all the repairs done. but i think its safe to say over 2 years. checked the fluid yesterday and there was just a lil bit too much tranny fluid, and since ive ben talkin about it ill change the fluid, hell maybe someone messed up and put in the wrong type of fluid (doubt it). i think that 97 was one of the first years chevy used this type of transmission (might be why it has its problems). and yes this is a very weird problem but i have searched other forums and a few people have the same problem, however i doubt its very common. |
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