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Subject: 1988 chevy light 3/4 ton couple of problems
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macabees34User is Offline
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01/26/2007 6:00 AM  
hey,

new to this forum, need answers quick because its ticking me off. 1970's trucks no prob. computerized trucks[barf3][barf3]! well first off, is there anyway to make my 4x4 engage manually instead of that stupid vaccum. you have to back up at least 6 feet[sad2] to get it to engage, and that does me no good if im stuck [bartor]! secondly it runs like crap, ive had it on the testors the whole shabang! unplug the EGR and it use to run fine, EGR plugged in it has a dead spot on take off. its getting worse. i know it has all kinds of power but that computer [@#@]crap wont let it come alive, oh by the way its a 350. ask all the questions you need to because i need help and im not use to asking for it. i usaully figure stuff out myself.[%>o][B)]

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
primetimek5User is Offline
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01/26/2007 9:37 AM  
you can buy a cable engaed for your axle at 4wp.

remove your egr valve & check the passageways. the can be clogged w/ carbon build up. take a coat hanger w/ a carbon cleaner spray(inj. cleaner) & go thru the lines like a plunger while spraying the cleaner thru the lines. clean your throttle plate while you are their.

rick p.
primetimek5User is Offline
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01/26/2007 9:38 AM  
does it have a mil or check eng. light on?

rick p.
Dan PittsUser is Offline
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01/26/2007 11:36 AM  
first lets start simple get a fuel pressure check it seems like it is a early 90s or a late 80s you are talking about and the have problems with the fuel pump. sometimes they wont die all together they will just rob you of power like f|_|ck. i was just wondering about that because you didn't say there was any codes in it with the scanner.

Danny Pitts ---------------------------------- lift it, fat chicks can't jump
macabees34User is Offline
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01/26/2007 11:57 AM  
Ill give it a try tonight[:D]! thanks for the input[banger]. let you know what happens. oh ya yes i do get an engine light some times,[:(!] when i get on it. its missing like crazy [barf2]i think im getting a bad coil now. ive replaced the cap, rotor, and plugs all i got left is wires and coil[zomb].the only codes i get is for the EGR what i would really like is a 1974 3/4 ton 4x4 with one ton axels, 350, 400 trans with a real nice body[:P][:P]!!!!

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
webby4x4User is Offline
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01/26/2007 1:01 PM  
Hi Mac - here's a link to a post I put up a little while back that might be helpful. It'll show you how to use a paperclip and pull trouble codes off of your truck, so that you can diagnose some of the problems. http://www.4x4review.com/discussions2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4033

If you need codes specific to your truck, let me know and I'll post them here for you.



Also, I would be pretty shocked if your coil is going bad. I've been building engines and working on them for over 20 years, and while I've heard OTHER people claim "I had a coil go bad once..." or "I knew a guy who had a coil go bad", I've never actually seen it first hand. Since there are no moving parts in coils, and they're one of the most simple devices known to man, they simply just don't go bad all that often.

Since you have an '88 truck, you have a small cap distributor with an external coil. There are a few ways you can check that with an ohm meter (let me know if you need instructions on that too), but again, I'd be shocked if the coil is bad.

A single faulty sensor (likely a bad MAP or TPS sensor) can cause just about every one of your problems. I'd start there.

Regards, Rick

Rick Webster

Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication

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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser

"Measure once, cut twice"
macabees34User is Offline
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01/26/2007 1:54 PM  
hey webby,

ive replace the TPS and tested the map sensor. and the testor never brought up either one. my dad has been a master mechanic for over 40 years and has top of the line test equipment but this is just stumping me. of course he hasnt taught me much the best way he taught me was to figure it out myself. so i dont get alot of input from him but i get to use all his tools. plus im not loaded with lots of money either so i cant just go out and buy parts to eliminate sensors or such parts. i need to find the problem. as for my coil i have a white discoloration on it telling me its firing outside the coil. but i guess i could have someone put a load on the motor and look for myself. if you have anymore ideas please feel free. and thanks agian for your input.

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
webby4x4User is Offline
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01/26/2007 2:31 PM  
hmmm... what codes are you pulling from the ECU?

Rick Webster

Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication

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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser

"Measure once, cut twice"
ChevyMan0784User is Offline
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01/26/2007 8:21 PM  
I know this might sound crazy but.....did you check that o2 sensor?? I am almost 110 that after 88 they came with one. And IF it does, that will make you truck run like absolute crap. Also, check any wires or plugs towards the back of your motor by the firewall, or by the distributor. I have had a couple clips on my old 1990 break, and the plug fell out and it had similar symptoms. Also, cap and rotor man...check it out, any cracks in the cap or corrosion inside or sometimes just normal wear will make it miss. Again I had that problem with mine and it had a dead spot when I would step on it. There could really be a number of reasons, even plugs. But like webby said...I have NEVER seen an actual coil go bad. Distributors yes, cap and rotors (always), but I ran the same coil on like 5 or 6 different trucks and I still have it. I love Accel, the big ole yellow monster! Then again that is integrated into the cap, soooo......I suppose it could be a bit different.

gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield *Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge. *Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!! *98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD. THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS
webby4x4User is Offline
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01/26/2007 8:26 PM  
To add fuel to ChevyMan's fire (pun intended) - I've been using the same small-cap coil in the last 3 Chevy V8 engines in my FJ40, and it's an original 1988 model. Transplanted from one engine to another... God, I wish all components were that reliable! [)]

Rick Webster

Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication

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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser

"Measure once, cut twice"
ChevyMan0784User is Offline
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01/26/2007 8:41 PM  
Godbless you Webby!!! LOL, I absolutely agree!

gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield *Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge. *Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!! *98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD. THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS
grumpydawgUser is Offline
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01/27/2007 9:36 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by webby4x4



Also, I would be pretty shocked if your coil is going bad. I've been building engines and working on them for over 20 years, and while I've heard OTHER people claim "I had a coil go bad once..." or "I knew a guy who had a coil go bad", I've never actually seen it first hand. Since there are no moving parts in coils, and they're one of the most simple devices known to man, they simply just don't go bad all that often.






i have had a coil go bad, started with a faulty ingition modual, don't know but maybe it pulled out too much juice from the coil, then about 3 months later the coil went bad.

i think that most coils fail from people useing a hammer on them thinking "if i hit this maybe the car/truck/van will start"

hammering on a coil can cause the cap/lid to loosen and leak out oily fluids and can cause the termals to break off or loosen internally.



please think before you break out the "B.F.H."

when in doubt use duct tape
webby4x4User is Offline
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01/27/2007 7:00 PM  
why in God's green earth would you smack a coil? There's no moving parts in there to jar anythign loose... (Of course, I'm NOT insinuating that you have done this Grumpydawg).

I know that the old coils (the ones that used to look like a beer can) had fluid in them, but I don't think that the newer ones have anything inside - do they? I'm talking about the GM small-cap external coils like the picture below.

Image Uploaded To Thread:
[img]http://www.4x4review.com/discussions2/uploaded/webby4x4/2007127185955_gm-small-cap-coil.jpg[/img]


Anyone know?



Rick

Rick Webster

Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication

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ChevyMan0784User is Offline
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01/28/2007 8:33 PM  
Yep, pretty darned sure it is nothing but a coil....just a core with copper wire wrapped around it with a magnetically charged outer ring....sorta like a speaker magnet!

gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield *Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge. *Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!! *98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD. THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS
webby4x4User is Offline
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01/29/2007 6:52 AM  
that's what I thought too... anyone know why old coils used to be filled with oil?

Rick Webster

Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication

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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser

"Measure once, cut twice"
macabees34User is Offline
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01/29/2007 7:47 AM  
well fellas,

i changed the sparkplug wires and now its poppin through the exhaust. burning real lean. so i guess i will check that o2 sensor and when i turn to the left around a corner it runs out of gas so i think i might have a problem with the fuel pump or something in my tank.oh i did make sure i put it back in firing order because that was the first thing that came to mind when it started popping through the exaust.

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
webby4x4User is Offline
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01/29/2007 7:50 AM  
what do you mean "popping through the exhaust"? Do you mean it's backfiring?

Rick Webster

Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication

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"Measure once, cut twice"
macabees34User is Offline
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01/29/2007 8:00 AM  
yes its backfiring through the exaust.

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
webby4x4User is Offline
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01/29/2007 8:20 AM  
what is triggering the backfire? Is it under acceleration, steady-state, or run-down (e.g. rev the engine, then as it's coming back to idle, it backfires)?

Rick

Rick Webster

Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication

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macabees34User is Offline
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01/29/2007 8:56 AM  
its when its under a load webby. its almost like a cam lobe is out of it or something.

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
ChevyMan0784User is Offline
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01/29/2007 9:52 AM  
Now with the gas tank deal... That is just plain wierd. I have never heard of loosing fuel pressure when only going around a left hand turn. So, the truck actually DIES when you make a left? Or does it sputter.... And how much fuel is in the tank when it does this. If it is just the guage going down, that is pretty normal. I would really say that the O2 sensor is your culprit with the backfiring though, because the computor module is adding more fuel because it cant read the mix. I have seen it happen many times on many vehicals. I am sure Webby would agree that this is a major possibility.

gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield *Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge. *Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!! *98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD. THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS
macabees34User is Offline
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01/29/2007 11:46 AM  
YA, when i go around a corner turning left it dies!!! go figure. this truck is haunted with troubles. i bought it from a farmer. it had no back brakes, brake line was broke, brake shoes where gone, and master cylinder was wiped. replaced it all. it had the stumble when i bought it, but i unplugged the EGR and it ran fine for 4 months. its a nice truck one rust spot on it. i just wish the problems were simple.

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
SnoManUser is Offline
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01/29/2007 12:11 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by macabees34
its when its under a load webby. its almost like a cam lobe is out of it or something.




Could indeed be a worn cam lobe or a burned valve or both. When engine leans out under load it can pop back through carb too. On it dying on left turns, this is not surprize if it is low on fuel because as I recall the fuel pickup is on left side of tank and if it is low, fuel sloshes to the right and pump goes dry and with FI there is no carb bowl to make it through the turn. You do not want to run those thing low on fuel because besides it dying in a sharp left turn, it is hard on pump too!

-------------------------- Visit the SnoMan at www.thesnoman.com
webby4x4User is Offline
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01/29/2007 12:15 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by macabees34
its when its under a load webby. its almost like a cam lobe is out of it or something.




I'll be willing to bet a dozen donuts that it's not a bad cam. There are really only two things that will cause backfiring under load.

The first, and most likely culprit, is fuel pressure (Dan Pitts hit the nail on the head). When accelerating, your engine require the majority of the fuel that the pump and injectors can send into the engine, with little to no fuel being shunted back to the tank. If your injectors are clogged, or your fuel pressure is falling off, this will cause backfires under load. I would suggest installing a fuel pressure gauge and see what it reads at idle, vs. full load.

The second possible culprit would be timing. If any part of your ignitions timing system (distributor, cap, rotor, coil, plugs and/or wires) are worn, then you're either getting a weak spark, or no spark. Either way, excessive fuel is being pushed into a hot catalytic convertor (or muffler), and igniting in the exhaust system.

I really can't think of anything else that would cause this.



Rick

Rick Webster

Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication

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macabees34User is Offline
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01/29/2007 12:34 PM  
webby,

bye the way it has no catalatic converters, and no air pump. it has dual exuast w/glass pacs. sweet sounding exhaust! thats the way i got it.

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
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01/29/2007 1:08 PM  
Hmmm... if there is no "X" pipe (equalizer) pipe, that could be causing some issues, and that would absolutely cause backfiring when you let OFF the gas after you've been accelerating. I still suspect it's a fuel pressure or timing issue.

What is your timing currently set at? those motors like to run with a huge advance on them.

Rick

Rick Webster

Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication

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macabees34User is Offline
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01/29/2007 1:18 PM  
ill have to get back with you on the timing[@#@]. but come to think about it, it could also be the timing chain is stretched. first im going to test my o2 sensor and work from there. i can get a new o2 for 30 bucks and a fuel pump for 53[banger]. so its not to expensive. you guys are great thanks for all your input. so ill let you know if its the o2 and timing. agian thanks alot guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!oh ya webby it only pops on a load not when i let off the gas[bartor].

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
webby4x4User is Offline
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01/29/2007 1:50 PM  
Ok, let us know what the timing is at idle, at 1,500 RPM's and at 3,000 ROM's (if possible). It may be an advance issue too.

Fuel pump - don't forget to get a cheap fuel pressure guage too!

Rick

Rick Webster

Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication

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primetimek5User is Offline
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01/29/2007 5:12 PM  
check the tdc or your firing order. i changed my wires up once & got the firing order wrong. on my chilton manuel had a type o 1 & 5 fires crossed

it took two days & a new ditrubuter to find that out!!!!!!!!!11

rick p.
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01/29/2007 5:19 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by webby4x4
Ok, let us know what the timing is at idle, at 1,500 RPM's and at 3,000 ROM's (if possible). It may be an advance issue too.

Fuel pump - don't forget to get a cheap fuel pressure guage too!

Rick


I do not really think this is a timing issue Rick.(timing only if it is worn cam lobe messing with valve timing) He has bigger problems. COuld have jumped a tooth on timing chain maybe but it does not match symptoms

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01/29/2007 6:15 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by SnoMan
I do not really think this is a timing issue Rick.(timing only if it is worn cam lobe messing with valve timing) He has bigger problems. COuld have jumped a tooth on timing chain maybe but it does not match symptoms




Well, I thought about that SnoMan, quite a bit actually. If it's not a bad sensor, then backfiring during acceleration is typically a sign of either "studdering" fuel, or improper timing advance, in that the gases are detonating too late in the stroke, typically just as the exhaust valves are opening. If it happens on deceleration, it's obviously typicaly due to unburned fuels exiting the conbustion chamber and detonating in the collector or the cat/muffler.

I'd be positively shocked if this was a jumped timing tooth, as he'd likely not be driving it at all, in that if it would possibly even idle, driving it would be a nightmare and really unstable.

Which brings us to valvetrain instability issue (i.e. week valve springs, valve float, etc.), but that's only typically seen at 4,000+ RPM's in stock small block Chevy's. 350 mills have incredibly stable valvetrains, even when the components are worn (in comparison to small block mopar or ford motors).

But, if the timing isn't advancing properly, under load, then in my mind, it comes down to either studdeirng (built up) fuel, or timing.

Now, ALL of this is caveated with the fact that we know nothing about the sensors, which could certainly cause all of these problems just as easily.

Rick

Rick Webster

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01/30/2007 5:42 AM  
You can jump one tooth and still run. Power would be down but it would still be smooth and it would retard timing too. A very loose chain can cause spark scatter too. I still think it is fuel management or valve/cam lobe issue. I had a car once that acted like this and it had a worn lobe on exhaust valve.

-------------------------- Visit the SnoMan at www.thesnoman.com
macabees34User is Offline
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01/30/2007 7:06 AM  
i know its not the firing order because it runs fine when its cold most of the time, it pops when its at operating temp. i guess thats because the computer is in by-pass mode and doesnt come out of by-pass until operating temp.

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
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01/30/2007 7:27 AM  
It could possibly be a weak fuel pump that when it warms up it does not provide enough pressure. Do a pressure check of it.

-------------------------- Visit the SnoMan at www.thesnoman.com
macabees34User is Offline
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01/30/2007 10:48 AM  
if its not the o2 sensor [xx(]then thats what its boiling down to fella's!!!!!!!!![banger] you have been very helpful. im going to change the fuel pump[puff]. ive got to pull that tank one of these days anyway so why not now and with a new fuel pump[:D] and get that possiblity out of the way. just in case so i dont end up walking[zomb] one of these days.

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
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01/30/2007 12:53 PM  
I think we covered all the bases (I would have never suggested a O2 sensor) it is up to you to folloe up on suggestions. What year is this engine anyway as I did not see it scanning through thread.

-------------------------- Visit the SnoMan at www.thesnoman.com
macabees34User is Offline
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01/30/2007 1:53 PM  
the motor its self i have no idea. but the truck is an 1988. they said when i got it the motor had been changed so i dont have a year for it. the testor said the o2 was fine but you never know.

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
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01/30/2007 6:41 PM  
only thing that happend to me when i had a bad **oxygen** sensor was bad gas mileage, i got a tune-up on the car and it didnt help the mileage much, but when i pulled codes i saw it was bad, i replaced it. now i got better gas mileage[:D] (1988 ford f150, 351 windsor engine,i know i know, ford and chevy are different, but still)

what im sayin is that a bad o2 sensor shouldnt give you too much trouble unless its about gas mileage and emmisions. (feel free to slam me if im wrong)

now, i did have a bad egr and it made my truck run like s***. runnin hot and everything...

and if the truck has a fpr (fuel pressure regulator) it could cause you some trouble if its bad. if you got one on the truck check and make sure its good. (disconnect vacuum line, turn key on but dont crank it, see if gas is coming out, no gas at all should be coming out.) - again thats from my experiences on ford efi systems but should still help yah. Good luck on the truck!

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01/31/2007 5:12 AM  
thanks for the info matt. ford and dogde have a valve stem to check fuel pressure. the later chevy's dont, you have to splice a "T" in the line and then hook up a pressure valve. engineers go [barf3]figure. engineer is another word for[^]: went to school and tried to learn common sense![:D]

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
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01/31/2007 7:04 AM  
If it is a TBI engine, look for about 14 PSI from pump and 9.5 to 10 PSI after regulator.

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02/02/2007 1:01 PM  
wish me luck fellas im changing that fuel pump this weekend.

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
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02/02/2007 3:51 PM  
good luck dude. Have fun with that too! [)]

Rick Webster

Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication

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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser

"Measure once, cut twice"
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03/07/2007 6:54 AM  
hey fellas guess what? i feel like the stupidest person in the world right now but i havent had much experience with computer [@#@][simp1]vehicles either so i have a buffer there. well i changed the fuel pump which cost me 32.00 very cheap! i drove it home that night and it ran better but when it hit operating temp it popped through the exuast still and lose of power. so when i pulled in the drive i shut it off and looked between the fender well and the tire. my exhuast manifold was glowing red! so i knew i had a timing issue but older chevy engines pop back through the carb when advanced and spark knocked. this did the opposite. so i waited till i got to work and popped the hood. grab hold of my distributor and turned, it was lose[xx(]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! man i was so pissed[&*][&*][&*][&*][fire][fire][fire][fire]! but the fuel pump was part of the problem too. but still i should of checked the timing from the get. thanks for all your input you guys are great. problem solved!!![@#@]

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
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03/07/2007 8:48 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by webby4x4
that's what I thought too... anyone know why old coils used to be filled with oil?


insulation?

as to the hammering on the coil[@#@] i plead the fifth (or a fifth!) [%>o]

when in doubt use duct tape
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03/07/2007 4:07 PM  
Oh man... that's too funny!!!!!!

You know, when something like that happens (to someone else, because I never make mistakes - HA!), it's a bitter-sweet moment. The good news is that it's a REALLLLY easy and free fix! And, your troubles are gone. It's one of those "phew! I'm glad it's over" moments. ;)



Rick

Rick Webster

Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication

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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser

"Measure once, cut twice"
SnoManUser is Offline
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03/07/2007 5:06 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by grumpydawg
quote:
Originally posted by webby4x4
that's what I thought too... anyone know why old coils used to be filled with oil?


insulation?

as to the hammering on the coil[@#@] i plead the fifth (or a fifth!)[%>o]


Kinda and but more for cooling too. The coil would not have a long life without it in its compact state because the oil basically turns the whole coil case into a heat sink for it.

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macabees34User is Offline
Bone Stock
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03/13/2007 4:08 AM  
we'll it runs awesome now!!! but there is always a but? when i pass someone or put a good size load on the motor my idot light comes on. shut it off going down the road for 30 sec. and start it back up the light is off. i remind you that it does not have the air pump or catalatic converters on it so i think that might have something to do with it. but i know people who dont have those either and their light doesnt come on. i was wondering if it is the O2 sensor? i cant afford to put cats back on it those things are expensive!!!!!!!!!!!

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
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03/13/2007 7:18 AM  
I would have never removed th CAT's to begin with as there really is not much HP lost with them (if any) at all. What year is this truck anyway?

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macabees34User is Offline
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03/13/2007 11:07 AM  
1988 chevy . i bought the truck without the cats. someone put dual exhaust with glass packs. it sounds sweet but they didnt know the reprocusiones of taking the cats and air pump off.

oh ya!!!! From the macster!!!
SnoManUser is Offline
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03/13/2007 1:07 PM  
It can be a can of worms sometimes. Is O2 sensor still present arehas a simulator been used? Another thing, O2 sensors need to heat up pretty hot to work properly and sometimes with duals it lets the exhaust gas expand and cool to quick for it to heat up properly. The back pressure from CAT's and stock exhaust prevent gas from expanding and cooling too quickly and heats up O2 sensor quicker and hotter. Have you done a fuel pressure check?

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Forums > Vehicle Tech Talk Area > Chevy & GMC > 1988 chevy light 3/4 ton couple of problems



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