pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 01/28/2007 12:34 PM |
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2004 chevy suburban doesnt start when gas is below 1/4 tank. have no clue why. i figured the guage could be wrong, or the sending unit could be bad, but the car still runs when the tank is nearly empty (low fuel light on and everything, tells me exactly how many miles i have left till im screwd [:)].
to add to that, it will only do this when you let it sit when its below 1/4 tank(espically overnight). you can turn it off after you run the fuel down to like 1/8 of a tank and start it right back up.
i dont have a problem with just keeping the fuel above 1/4, but id like to know whats wrong with it. just because i couldnt figure it out [:)] and this forum rocks so i figured id ask you guys. |
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grumpydawg
Street Queen
Posts:100
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| 01/28/2007 1:21 PM |
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| possibly a hole in the fuel line, causing it to suck air or your fuel pick up is clogged or broken or has a hole in it. |
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when in doubt use duct tape |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/28/2007 3:16 PM |
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it could be that the pickup screen broke off too. That leaves about 3-4 inches of "nothing" below that.
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 01/28/2007 7:00 PM |
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pickup screen? neva heard of it is it like a fuel filter in the tank?
i also heard that lines in the pump get cracked and worn. dont want the dealer to say its the pump and have my mom buy a 500$ pump. (my moms car) |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 01/29/2007 5:12 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by webby4x4
it could be that the pickup screen broke off too. That leaves about 3-4 inches of "nothing" below that.
Rick
I think I side with rick on this one. This is just a crude filter in tank to keep debrie from being sucked up into pump. Sounds like time to drop the tank. It is not a external fuel line because the pump is in tank and there is no external vacum on it trying to draw gas up. For what it is worth, you really do not wnat to run below 1/4 a lot anyway because the fuel lubes and cools the pump and went you find peopel complaining about replacing the pump a lot you wil likely find that they are running it low a lot too. My 89 burb with a 40 gallon tank still has factory pump and the only time it gets below a half is on a trip and then it is fully refilled at next fuel stop. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/29/2007 6:51 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SnoMan
For what it is worth, you really do not wnat to run below 1/4 a lot anyway because the fuel lubes and cools the pump and went you find people complaining about replacing the pump a lot you wil likely find that they are running it low a lot too.
Wow... I never knew that. It certainly makes sense now that you say it, but I didn't know that. Learned something new today! I guess now I can go back to sleep. [)] |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 01/29/2007 8:24 AM |
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| I know this because back in early to mid 80's my dad rep'ed for a company that was designing prototype motors for such usage for GM and I remember him telling me the problems they had with getting the right bearing material to be able to use gas as a lube for motor as well as cool it. (cooling part was easy as long as there was enough fuel in tank) The older TBI pumps were more durable and did not run as hot because they were low pressure (about 14 PSI) and drew less power too but the newer vortec engine run about 60 PSI and pump draws more power, runs at a higher RPM and gets hotter and more sensitive to low fuel. |
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 01/29/2007 4:35 PM |
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| yeah... theres a good chance that thats the problem. we will just keep the car over 1/2 tank at all times. if the fuel pump goes out ill mess with it then. well thanks again! [)] |
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Dan Pitts
Body Lift
Posts:232
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| 01/29/2007 8:15 PM |
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| so here is the deal. chevy is a bunch of idiots first your gauge is probably off. the reason your gauage is off is because your fuel pump is bad it happens to all chevys with the 5.3 or 4.3 vortec motors or any kind of truck. |
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Danny Pitts
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lift it, fat chicks can't jump |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 01/30/2007 5:39 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan Pitts
so here is the deal. chevy is a bunch of idiots first your gauge is probably off. the reason your gauage is off is because your fuel pump is bad it happens to all chevys with the 5.3 or 4.3 vortec motors or any kind of truck.
Uusally when gauge fails, it fails and the reason that the pumps fail a lot is because people unwittingly run them low a lot and burn them up. I f you keep tank fairly full, the pump will last a very long time. Also realistically in today volitale fuel market there is goo reason to keep tank topped off anyway rather than putting 10 or 20 bucks in it and running it to E because you are not saving anything in the long run and likely costing you more with more frequent trips to gas station. When I get gas, I always fillup. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/30/2007 6:01 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan Pitts
...first your gauge is probably off. the reason your gauage is off is because your fuel pump is bad...
I think I can count on two fingers the number of times I've seen a fuel guage misteriously become "off" or inaccurate. I agree with SnoMan, in that the vast majority of cases, they either work, or don't work. They're incredibly simple units - float, arm, rheostat, wire... For a guage to become off, the float arm would have to become bent, or something would need to happen to the guage. Even if the rheostat goes bad, it would likely just have a "dead spot" in it.
Also, the fuel pump doesn't affect the guage, even though they're mounted on the same stantion - unless it goes so horribly wrong that it explodes, gears spit out of it at mach 2, a plastic widget gets wedged in there and all of the planets come into alignment. Oh yeah, you'd have to hold your mouth just right too. [:D]
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 01/30/2007 12:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan Pitts
so here is the deal. chevy is a bunch of idiots first your gauge is probably off. the reason your gauage is off is because your fuel pump is bad it happens to all chevys with the 5.3 or 4.3 vortec motors or any kind of truck.
i completely agree with you. my other truck is on its 3rd fuel pump (not an "inside of tank" fuel pump). and fuel filters have ben replaced when needed.
my 88 ford f150 has the fuel pump that came with it. and it runs pretty good (dispite the slight overheating)
it was ran from full to empty, we never stop at a gas station and just put like 10$ in or something like that, always a fill up, but we dont fill up until its about 1/4 or less.
and yeah the guage could be off, never know... my solution for the problem... keep gas over 1/2 until experiencing bigger problems [)]
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 01/30/2007 12:47 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pmipmatt73
quote:
Originally posted by Dan Pitts
so here is the deal. chevy is a bunch of idiots first your gauge is probably off. the reason your gauage is off is because your fuel pump is bad it happens to all chevys with the 5.3 or 4.3 vortec motors or any kind of truck.
i completely agree with you. my other truck is on its 3rd fuel pump (not an "inside of tank" fuel pump). and fuel filters have ben replaced when needed.
my 88 ford f150 has the fuel pump that came with it. and it runs pretty good (dispite the slight overheating)
it was ran from full to empty, we never stop at a gas station and just put like 10$ in or something like that, always a fill up, but we dont fill up until its about 1/4 or less.
and yeah the guage could be off, never know... my solution for the problem... keep gas over 1/2 until experiencing bigger problems [)]
I bet you run it low on fuel a lot. Try to keep tank above half full and it will last a long time. Also like Rick said, the gauge either usually works or does not and it would be easy to see if it is off, fill it up when it reads 1/4 tank and see how much fuel it takes. |
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Dan Pitts
Body Lift
Posts:232
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| 01/30/2007 2:28 PM |
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| do some research they used to come in the shop all the time they will start to read low and empty when they are not. garuntee it always happend the guage goes first then the pump soon follows. you will start to see the tank on empty ans then it will be ok for a day then it will do it again and soon after it takes awhile to start the truck. i know i am right. it happens all the time on trucks that are newer then 99. |
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Danny Pitts
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lift it, fat chicks can't jump |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 01/30/2007 5:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan Pitts
garuntee it always happend the guage goes first then the pump soon follows. you will start to see the tank on empty ans then it will be ok for a day then it will do it again and soon after it takes awhile to start the truck. i know i am right. it happens all the time on trucks that are newer then 99.
There was a lot of gage problem on Siverado because there were very sensitive to moisture. (shell oil paind to have a lot of them fixed a while back from bad fuel) but it does not make them read 1/4 when tank is empty. It is usually either full scale high or low or eractic and there is no mention of that here. You do some research on your own you you will find that basically every one that has fuel pump problems likes to run tank low a lot. GM does not tell you that it is hard on pump though, just like when they quietly moved fuel filter into tank around 05 so now the end used can no longer easily change that now either. Planned obsolescence for future replacement sales. |
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Dan Pitts
Body Lift
Posts:232
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| 01/30/2007 5:20 PM |
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| lets see maybe GM is saying that because they want to cover there ass. i do agreee that is makes the gauge read low it doesnt throw it off like a quarter of a tank. i love GM to but they have sh * ty fuel pumps as of any intank fuel pump anymore. our old shop truck was a 2001 GM 2500HD with the 6.0 in it it was a beast. my uncle would never lets us drive it if it was under a quarter if a tank. and it never fell below because it wasnt my gas money and i didnt want to get in trouble for driving it under a 1/4 of a tank. that pump went out at 70 thousand miles. the truck was in great condition to it wasnt like it had the sh * t beat out of it. i worked at a acdelco shop and we did a bunch of them. so think maybe GM doesnt want to warranty those pump when they go out at about 50 or 60 thousand miles. so you say it is the driver i say it is the manufacture and they dont want to take the responsbility for it but yet that is just my opinion. |
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Danny Pitts
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lift it, fat chicks can't jump |
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Dan Pitts
Body Lift
Posts:232
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| 01/30/2007 5:23 PM |
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| and the fuel pump does effect the gauge. Rick yet i cant explain it but it does look deep into it and you will find that the gauge goes with the fuel pump or before it. i think it has to do with that they are mounted together and come as on piece i think. i dunno though |
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Danny Pitts
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lift it, fat chicks can't jump |
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 01/30/2007 6:22 PM |
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well ima stay out of this arguement, but i will add that i have had bad experiences with chevy fuel pumps. and i see it reasonable that if you keep your gas over 1/2 tank it will be easier on it, but we havent "abused" it by keeping the gas low all the time, because we almost always fill it back up when its around 1/4 tank, but in this case the pump may or may not be the issue...
im thinking its the fuel screen or fractured lines in or near the fuel pump causing a slow leak overnight (very low gas in lines), by the time its time to start no gas will flow unless the fuel pump lines are covered by enough gas (gas covering the fractures), and the reason why it runs nearly empty is because the gas is constantly moving.(im not sure where the pump is in the tank,or the design of it, but the way im picturing it that could happen...)
again, im keepin the tank over 1/2. period.
thanks snow, webby, Dan, and Grumpy!! appreciate it!!! [:D] |
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 01/30/2007 6:27 PM |
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| ohh yeah and considering the prices for filling it up the guage seems to be working fine. around 50-60$ for filling up at 1/4 tank.( i believe... somewhere around there [:)]) |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 01/31/2007 4:19 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Dan Pitts
and the fuel pump does effect the gauge. Rick yet i cant explain it but it does look deep into it and you will find that the gauge goes with the fuel pump or before it. i think it has to do with that they are mounted together and come as on piece i think. i dunno though
The pump and float sensor share a mounting point and no common electrical circuit other than ground maybe. Fuel gages would on a balance bridge resistive circuit theory the places low voltage and extremely low current on fuel sensor in tank. They do this to eliminate to possiblity of arc causing a fire in tank but it is not the threat you think because in a seal tank with high vapor consentration there is little free to support combustion. I still have original pump on 89 and 2000 model. |
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