BAD86
Bone Stock
Posts:15
 |
| 06/03/2007 3:53 PM |
|
| Hello,
I have a 1986 Chevy 4X4 pick-up. With a 700R4 trans and a NP208 tranfer case. Driving down the highway felt like it shifted into neutral. Pulled over and let it sit awhile then tried it again and ran and shifted fine for awhile. Then the same thing happened again. Replaced torque converter, fluid, and filter. When I started it after that I tried to put it into gear nothing happened and when it went back to park it made a grinding noise. Today when I tried it with the same problem, I put it into 4wd it went into reverse and drive with no problem ????? So I went back into 2wd and it still Worked. Any Ideas? Transfer case or Transmission??? |
|
|
|
|
webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
|
| 06/03/2007 8:27 PM |
|
Hi Bad86 - it sounds like your t-case popped out of gear is all.
Rick |
|
Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
|
|
SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
|
| 06/04/2007 4:00 AM |
|
quote:
Originally posted by webby4x4
Hi Bad86 - it sounds like your t-case popped out of gear is all.
Rick
Yes it sounds like it was not fully engaged and popped out. It could also be that shifter fork or detent is worn too. |
|
--------------------------
Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
|
|
BAD86
Bone Stock
Posts:15
|
| 06/04/2007 5:08 PM |
|
| Thanks, But how could it just pop out of gear? If the sifter fork or detent is worn wouldnt that be a more gradual problem? I have had this truck for 5 Years, at this is the first time this has happened. I checked the oil level in my t-case after it happened the first time and had to add 3 Qts. of fluid, but I still had the same problem. How can I check the shifter fork or detents? Thanks Again |
|
|
|
|
SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
|
| 06/05/2007 9:47 AM |
|
quote:
Originally posted by BAD86
Thanks, But how could it just pop out of gear? If the sifter fork or detent is worn wouldnt that be a more gradual problem? I have had this truck for 5 Years, at this is the first time this has happened. I checked the oil level in my t-case after it happened the first time and had to add 3 Qts. of fluid, but I still had the same problem. How can I check the shifter fork or detents? Thanks Again
Things wear out to the point that they no longer hold. Is this a push and pray 4x4 shift or manual shift? |
|
--------------------------
Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
|
|
BAD86
Bone Stock
Posts:15
|
| 06/05/2007 10:29 AM |
|
| This is a manual shift with the sifter on the floor.I am going to mess with it tonight, and keep yall updated. Thanks |
|
|
|
|
BAD86
Bone Stock
Posts:15
|
| 06/05/2007 3:08 PM |
|
| Hello, Someone told me about a C-Clip in the out-put shaft of the transfer case, that commonly breaks. They said this could be the problem. Has anyone heard of this C-Clip? |
|
|
|
|
webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
|
| 06/05/2007 6:09 PM |
|
Nope - while I've heard the same thing, that would not cause that issue.
The detent is a pretty simple thing. It's spring steel that acts as a holder (of sorts) to keep the shifters from disengaging. As it's shifted over the years, the spring-steel looses it's springiness, or the clips wears out (it's different on various types of transfer cases).
Rick |
|
Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
|
|
ChevyMan0784
Lift & Lockers
Posts:699
|
| 06/06/2007 2:22 AM |
|
| Your other potential problem is a stretched out chain. Since the NP208 is chain driven, I personally and other people I know have had the same problem. But you are in luck, because no matter where you are... an NP208 is easy to come by in a junk yard and cheap. But, of coarse, there are other potential causes. Good luck. |
|
gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
|
|
BAD86
Bone Stock
Posts:15
|
| 07/10/2007 7:33 PM |
|
Thanks, I took my transfer case out and opened it up, There was 3 bearings that had failed. This caused the input shaft to overheat, and cut big groves in it. Also the pads for the shift forks were destroyed ans laying in the case.
Should I fix this, Or buy another one??? |
|
|
|
|
SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
|
| 07/10/2007 7:45 PM |
|
quote:
Originally posted by BAD86
Thanks, I took my transfer case out and opened it up, There was 3 bearings that had failed. This caused the input shaft to overheat, and cut big groves in it. Also the pads for the shift forks were destroyed ans laying in the case.
Should I fix this, Or buy another one???
Sounds like it ran low on fluid or was never serviced.
|
|
--------------------------
Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
|
|
ChevyMan0784
Lift & Lockers
Posts:699
|
| 07/10/2007 8:31 PM |
|
| Well, NP208s are dime a dozen and are easy enough to install. I would go to a junkyard or Craigslist.com in the auto parts section. And install the sucka yourself. The T-Case is actually pretty light since it is all aluminum. If you have a driveway, get at it man. You will save at least a thousand bucks or more total. |
|
gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
|
|
SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
|
| 07/11/2007 7:46 AM |
|
| Probably the number one "killer" of NP208's is stock gears with big tires. Most do not even remotely consider this added tcase strain when they do not regear axles. Lack of proper maintainance is a factor too. Yes the 208 is a LD to MD case at best but if you keep torque loads down on it with proper axles gearing with bigger tires and maintain it it can give a very long service life. It is not very forgiving though went you do not do this. |
|
--------------------------
Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
|
|
ChevyMan0784
Lift & Lockers
Posts:699
|
| 07/11/2007 2:49 PM |
|
| Yea I agree, thats the number one reason for almost ANY immediate failure after the initial lift and tire upgrade. Plus the original milage that initially stretched the chain. So it was prolly week to begin with. Give er a break man, throw some lower gears in there
|
|
gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
|
|
BAD86
Bone Stock
Posts:15
|
| 07/11/2007 5:58 PM |
|
Thanks Guys. I went out and bought a "parts truck". It has a TH400 and a 208. It also has a 14 Bolt Rear with a Locker and 4.56 Gears.
What do I have to change to install the TH400 Combo into my Truck?
What do I have to do to put the 1 Ton Rear in my Truck? |
|
|
|
|
SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
|
| 07/12/2007 6:44 AM |
|
quote:
Originally posted by BAD86
Thanks Guys. I went out and bought a "parts truck". It has a TH400 and a 208. It also has a 14 Bolt Rear with a Locker and 4.56 Gears.
What do I have to change to install the TH400 Combo into my Truck?
What do I have to do to put the 1 Ton Rear in my Truck?
You are going about this wrong. The 700R4 has a ratio range of 4.37 from lowest to highest gear and a converter that can lock up in 3rd and 4th gear. The THM400 was a good tranny in its day but that day in long gone and it has a ratio range of 2.48 from highest to lowest gear. The 700R4 has a 3.06 first gear vs the THM400's 2.48 or 23% taller or 23% less wheel torque. Also reverse on the THM400 is 2.07 vs 2.29 on 700R4 which means that THM 400 has about a 11% taller reverse or 11% less wheel torque too! You have convinced yourself that the 700R4 is junk (which it is not) when if you installed say 5.13 gears with a 700R4 you would have a lower cruise RPM in top gear than THM 400 and about 40% more wheel torque in first gear than a THM400 with 4.56 gears. It seems that you really do not want your truck to be the best it can be because you are not helping it as you think you are. |
|
--------------------------
Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
|
|
ChevyMan0784
Lift & Lockers
Posts:699
|
| 07/12/2007 6:45 AM |
|
| nothing at all man, that is the beauty. The TH400 and NP208 should bolt right up in your truck. And the one ton rearend will bolt right up too. Be sure to use the drive shaft out of the donor truck also, it will be a major help. You will want to match your front axle to the rear one (gears I mean) and if yours is not already running 8 lug 16"s then you will want to get some, if the ones on the donor are crap. Be sure NOT to run your 4X4 without the front gear change, or else you will be effectively making your rear axle want to "walk" over the front one. Awsome find man, perfect donor!!!!!!!!!! |
|
gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
|
|
BAD86
Bone Stock
Posts:15
|
| 07/12/2007 4:39 PM |
|
Thanks. I actually do think that the 700R4 is Junk! What kinda Transmission Relies on ONE cable being set up Perfectly to work?
Anyways,
I will keep the 700 FOR NOW, unitl my Driving habits make it a Big Pile of Metal Shavings.[^**^]
Does anyone know of or Have a 208 Transfer Case that will bolt up to a 700R4??? |
|
|
|
|
SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
|
| 07/13/2007 5:35 AM |
|
quote:
Originally posted by BAD86
Thanks. I actually do think that the 700R4 is Junk! What kinda Transmission Relies on ONE cable being set up Perfectly to work?
Anyways,
I will keep the 700 FOR NOW, unitl my Driving habits make it a Big Pile of Metal Shavings.[^**^]
Does anyone know of or Have a 208 Transfer Case that will bolt up to a 700R4???
You are sadly mistaken about the 700R4. There is NOTHING wrong with cable TV control of tranny. THM350 used it too. The old famed Chrysler 727 used this in the form of a rod connected to throttle and tranny TV. 700R4's that fail are because people use them with tall gears and big tires and slow cook them, not because they are bad. (many never even remotely consider the strain that big tires can place on a tranny and the thought of regearing axles to properly fix this never even enters their minds) Some after market rebuilders offer 700R4's that will handle 700 HP with no problems. The only 700R4 to stay away from is the 27 input spline one made 81 thru 84 (even those can be ungraded though). I have a 89 4x4 burb with a 700R4 and it has over 180K on it now and it still works like new and has never given me any trouble. It has had regular fluid changes and it does have a small aux tranny cooler too. It has towed some and it has crossed the rockies more than a dozen times too and as recently as 2003 and may again next year. I would NEVER dream of downgrading it to a THM400 and going from 4 speeds to 3! The beauty of a 700R4 (which was developed from THM350) is that unlike its newer cousin the 4L60E (which is a 700R4 with a electronic valve body) and relative 4L80E (which is nothing more than a THM 400 with a OD and a locking converter and a electronic valve body) it does not require a computer in car to control it making it a great upgrade to old 3 speed GM trucks. |
|
--------------------------
Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
|
|
BAD86
Bone Stock
Posts:15
|
| 07/13/2007 5:53 PM |
|
Thanks, I know that it is a good Tranny. Its just that in my family we have went through 6 of them! One was a completely Stock 1992 Burb and the other was a completely Stock 1990 Pickup. The other was a 1987 K5 with 35 Mud Terrains and 4.10 Gears. All 3 Vehicles have Trans Coolers.
On the Other hand, My wifes truck, a 1993 GMC has 208,000 Miles on the clock and is just starting to slip.
Its just that I am a Old Skool Guy who likes 3 Speeds and 2 Speed powerglides. And has a Bad Taste in my mouth of the 700R4.
I will keep the 700 until I can get a Standard.
|
|
|
|
|
SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
|
| 07/13/2007 7:21 PM |
|
quote:
Originally posted by BAD86
Thanks, I know that it is a good Tranny. Its just that in my family we have went through 6 of them! One was a completely Stock 1992 Burb and the other was a completely Stock 1990 Pickup. The other was a 1987 K5 with 35 Mud Terrains and 4.10 Gears. All 3 Vehicles have Trans Coolers.
On the Other hand, My wifes truck, a 1993 GMC has 208,000 Miles on the clock and is just starting to slip.
Its just that I am a Old Skool Guy who likes 3 Speeds and 2 Speed powerglides. And has a Bad Taste in my mouth of the 700R4.
I will keep the 700 until I can get a Standard.
I can see why you killed so many trannies. 35 with 4.10 IS NOT a good combo with a 700R4 (it is kinda like 3.42's with stock tires which is not a good combo either) 35 with 4.10 in OD on a 700R4 is about 1700 RPM at 65 which is slow death for a 700R4. With that lift and tire combo you want to be turning at least 2200 RPM or more at that speed in OD if you expect tranny to last. On the burb, most cam stock with 3.42's which was tall with stock tires and if you are running bigger tires too it is another death sentence for tranny. So many blame the tranny but never ever consider that the "nut" behind the wheel that mods them without regearing is the problem, not the tranny. For some reason many seem to think that lifts and tires have no effect on drive train life and if it goes bad it is because drive train is bad or junk, not because of what they did. You are not alone because a lot share this illusion along with those that think a 4.10 is the gear to have regardless of tires size. As a rule of thumb if you want good performance if you divide tire size by axle ratio you want to have about 7 or less for best possible performance with a 700R4. A 8 is in grey area asking for trouble and possible slow death (depending on usage)and a 9 or more is a quicker surer death. BTW, if you would have had 4.88 in the K5 you would not have lost the first tranny with 35's and you still would have been turn just a bit over 2100 RPM in OD at 65 too. |
|
--------------------------
Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
|
|
BAD86
Bone Stock
Posts:15
|
| 07/13/2007 7:29 PM |
|
| Thats Great.
I am going to keep the 700R4. |
|
|
|
|