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porterzcustomz
Bone Stock
Posts:15
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| 09/18/2007 9:41 AM |
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| I have a spool to install in the front and I was going to install it but then realized it appeared to be ALOT of work. How do you get the front axles to slide out? There does not seem to be a C clip in the diff like there is in the rear (unless mine got lost) Well here is what I did. I took the easy route.. ( I don't really recomend it because its not really the proper way) Not being a stranger to licoln lockers and having good welding skills I basically took the diff cover off and welded the spider gears without taking anyting out or apart. I was carefull with the heat and with the stick not to hit anything besides the gears. I cleaned it out after with a bunch of carb cleaner and a blow gun making sure to get rid of all the slag and spatter. I then installed a magnet on the bottom to catch any spater that I might of missed that could fall off in the future and cause wear. What is required to install a minispool in the front? |
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primetimek5
Lift & Lockers
Posts:537
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| 09/18/2007 9:53 AM |
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| are you doing a front 10 bolt?. street driven?
what axle? i ma tking this info from you other post. |
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rick p. |
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porterzcustomz
Bone Stock
Posts:15
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| 09/18/2007 10:05 AM |
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| yea, srry street driven, dana 44. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 09/18/2007 9:34 PM |
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If it's a street driven truck, why would you want to lock the front? Doing a lincoln locker may be fine for a trail rig, in the rear axle, but I really think you're going to have a lot of problems (e.g. you're going to fight the steering a LOT, you'll probably crack the frame where the steering box mates to it, you'll likely go through an axle or two as well).
I'm 100% all about budget upgrades, but I think you might be better off with an open diff up front and a locker in the rear if you're going to be wheeling a lot.
Sorry to sound so negative...
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 09/19/2007 4:49 AM |
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| A spool would be the WORST thing to put in a front axle!!! Tires have to be able to roll at different speeds in ANY turn and a spool would bind up front axle in turns. Also Ujoint are not constant speed and with a spool it will REALLY bind things up in turns on anything other than slickest surfaces. Do not waste you time installing it because you will live to regret it! |
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Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
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primetimek5
Lift & Lockers
Posts:537
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| 09/19/2007 5:42 AM |
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| what webby & snoman says to the 10th power |
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rick p. |
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porterzcustomz
Bone Stock
Posts:15
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| 09/19/2007 11:28 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by webby4x4
If it's a street driven truck, why would you want to lock the front? Doing a lincoln locker may be fine for a trail rig, in the rear axle, but I really think you're going to have a lot of problems (e.g. you're going to fight the steering a LOT, you'll probably crack the frame where the steering box mates to it, you'll likely go through an axle or two as well).
I'm 100% all about budget upgrades, but I think you might be better off with an open diff up front and a locker in the rear if you're going to be wheeling a lot.
Sorry to sound so negative...
Rick
I am very confused.. how does it bind up in the street when the hub arnt locked!!!!??? Crack the frame in the mud!!!?? What the heck ru guys talking about? I am very confused.. Its the front end.. Its unlocked on the street only locked in the mud and I can choose to only lock one at a time if I want.
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porterzcustomz
Bone Stock
Posts:15
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| 09/19/2007 11:40 AM |
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| I have already been running it for awhile and it works excellent. On the road there is absolutly the same way as before its only when I go offroad and lock the hubs. I can lock just one side or both. The offroading I do is either 2wd 35" LSD terrain and then the extream slick stuff that I use 4x4. The locked diff don't effect driveability much at all offorad in fact new jeeps come with front lockers stock!! |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 09/19/2007 1:18 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by porterzcustomz
I have already been running it for awhile and it works excellent. On the road there is absolutly the same way as before its only when I go offroad and lock the hubs. I can lock just one side or both. The offroading I do is either 2wd 35" LSD terrain and then the extream slick stuff that I use 4x4. The locked diff don't effect driveability much at all offorad in fact new jeeps come with front lockers stock!!
Something is not right here because a "spool" will make itself know and handle squirrelly at times. Someone is not playing it straight. Also there is a BIG different between a selectable locker in some new vehciles and a pool, BIG DIFFERENCE. (one can unlock and act normal) |
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Visit the SnoMan at
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porterzcustomz
Bone Stock
Posts:15
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| 09/19/2007 3:55 PM |
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| Yes, you do feel it not steer as sharp when your offroad making a tight corner but onroad its the same. |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 09/19/2007 5:11 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by porterzcustomz
Yes, you do feel it not steer as sharp when your offroad making a tight corner but onroad its the same.
Talk to me after you bust a few axle ujoints or stub shafts with the spool up there. You will, it is just a mater of time. |
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Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 09/19/2007 9:31 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by porterzcustomz
I am very confused.. how does it bind up in the street when the hub arnt locked!!!!??? Crack the frame in the mud!!!?? What the heck ru guys talking about? I am very confused.. Its the front end.. Its unlocked on the street only locked in the mud and I can choose to only lock one at a time if I want.
Sorry, I a$$umed you had fulltime hubs up front. So yes, on the street, you won't notice it.
However, running a spool in the front (or a lincoln locker) will wreak havoc on your front axle. You can get away with it on a comp buggy, because they're running hybrid axles, Chromoly axle shafts, lock-out plates, specially made u-joints and fully hydraulic steering. But, they also change their axle shafts after one or two runs too.
With your daily driver however, you are going to run into a lot of problems. Look, I'm about as far from an alamrist as one can get when it comes to modifying 4x4's. However, most really hard-core off-roaders either run a regular Detroit locker up front, or a selectable locker (e.g. ARB, Eletrac, Ox Locker, etc.) because they need to differentiate (as SnoMan pointed out). Anyhow, with stub shafts and u-joints up front, this is a whole 'nother ball game here. You see, u-joints travel at varying speeds (through an elipses), and with a spool or Lincoln locker, they are forced to spin at a convstant speed. Eventually, you're going to blow a front u-joint, which is a 20 minute trail fix, at least.
Hey, we're not trying to bust your balls here, it's just that many of us have learned the hard way, or by watching someone else learn the hard way. Bottom line is that front axles don't deal well with spools at all. With the steering components as part of the equation, there really needs to be some differentiation.
When I'm rock-crawling, I only flip on my front locker when I desperately need it (pretty rarely). This makes it far easier to steer, and reduces strain on the components. And, for what it's worth, I run a competition-grade front axle, and I still don't use it that much.
OK, so back to your question about the frame cracking...
Here's what happens. When the steering binds up and pushed against you, it's because there is no differentiation. The u-joints are fighting, with every atom, to drive in a straight line. But, when you need to turn because something is in your way, or there's a cliff in front of you, you naturally start pulling hard on the wheel.
When you do this, there is a set of laterall forces created from the pitman arm, which travels up the sector shaft and essentially tries to pull the steering box right off the frame. This repeated stress starts to cause stress fractures on the frame, which leads to cracks, and eventually a catastrophic failure. Heck, this happens pretty commonly on vehicles withOUT front lockers, which is why there are a number of aftermarket companies making weld-in scab plates to repair and/or prevent this problem. With a front locker, this issue is exaccerbated greatly.
Anyow, I hope that helps.
Rick
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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ChevyMan0784
Lift & Lockers
Posts:699
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| 09/20/2007 3:13 AM |
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| Well put Webby. |
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gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 09/20/2007 4:00 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChevyMan0784
Well put Webby.
Yes he did do a good job of it. :) |
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Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
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porterzcustomz
Bone Stock
Posts:15
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| 09/20/2007 4:36 AM |
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| I only lock both hubs in low traction conditions where the axles will not bind up because the tires are allowed to slip without much force. I would never use it on hardpack because then yes it would break a font ujoint and put alot of stress on things. As long as its only used in slick mud and very loose terrain it will be fine. It can also be used for a slick hard pack situation like a rock climb only if you are going in a stright line and you are very easy on it but for the most part I never lock both on any type of hardpack and I have no problems with it. My friend uses his font locker all the time with his jeep when he is offroading and he does not have any problems either. Just like him I can unlock mine by unlocking one of the hubs. |
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