davidmiddleton
Bone Stock
Posts:18
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| 10/18/2004 8:34 PM |
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| Hello,
I recently swapped out the original engine in my 1989 k1500 for the GM High Performance 330hp 350. Since the camshaft is modeled after the 67 to 69 corvette, the factory TBI unit and computer seem to be having trouble accommodating. It runs fine at higher RPMs, but seems to be loading up at idle and hesitates slightly when mashing the throttle. Again, the computer, injectors, sensors, and computer are all factory. I have been contemplating upgrading the TBI unit or installing an adjustable MAP sensor. Since I no longer have to deal with emissions, I was also toying with the idea of a carb. conversion.
Does anyone have any suggestions or know anyone that has done this swap? Any help would be appreciated
Thanks,
Dave |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 10/18/2004 8:54 PM |
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Before you make a big swap like that, call the folks at Turbo City ( http://www.turbocity.com ) or Jet Chips ( http://www.jetchip.com ) and see what they say. They may be able to create a chip that will work specifically for your application. (Tell them Rick at 4X4REVIEW.COM sent you)
Before you call them, I would highly suggest that you get a reading from your tailpipe at idle and at high rpm. This will measure the raw fuel being pushed out, the hydroflourocarbons (Spelling?) and so forth. Depending upon where you live, most state emissions locations will do this for $15 or so, or you can have it done at a good repair shop. Armed with this information, either Turbo City or Jet should be able to burn a custom chip for your application.
Lastly, they may suggest that you change your injectors, but that's also an easy task.
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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davidmiddleton
Bone Stock
Posts:18
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| 10/18/2004 9:21 PM |
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| Rick,
I have had the truck e'checked. According to the e'check place, the truck should be running perfectly. I called Jet performance about a year ago and they said they could not "burn" a custom chip for my application any more. As for turbo city, I will look into that.
Thanks,
Dave
P.S. Do you know of anyone else who has done this swap? |
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sublmnl1990
Body Lift
Posts:195
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| 10/18/2004 9:32 PM |
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| I have been looking into this as well And elderbrock offers a manifold/tbi setup I am not exactly sure if this will help but it may, let me know how you work this out I have the same question under this one and cant decide on which way to go. Jasper even will make a complete custom tbi set up maybe they can help with the top end of your's? Ncik |
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You know it's going to be a good day when you get the milk to cereal ratio correct on the first bowl. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 10/18/2004 10:02 PM |
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I thought for sure that Jet would burn a custom chip... [V]
I'm pretty darn sure that Turbo City will though.
Sublmnl1990 may be onto something with the Edlebrock setup. It uses a TBI unit as an air horn, but uses independent injectors in the manifold.
Holley's TBI unit is completely adjustable, but we struggled with getting ours tuned in for a year or more. [url]http://www.4x4review.com/products/electrical/holley-projection.asp[/url]. Now that it's dialed in it works pretty well and you can tune the curve for advance, at varying RPM's, etc. You can email jodyc@4x4review.com (my tech editor) for questions about it. It was put on an I6, but they have similar for V8's.
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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davidmiddleton
Bone Stock
Posts:18
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| 10/19/2004 12:31 AM |
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| Hey Rick or sublmnl1990,
Any idea how expensive the kit is. I've already got a lot tied up in the engine and intake. Was kind of looking for a cheaper finish to the project.
Dave
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 10/19/2004 8:48 AM |
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If you're budget concsious, then I'd first call Turbo City and see if they can burn a custom chip.
I don't remember how much the kits were, but I'll find out and get back to you.
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 10/19/2004 9:09 AM |
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Here are the prices for the units, this is retail value, so you can find them cheaper. You can probably save a ton of $ on eBay too.
- Holley Commander 950 2-bbl TBI Kit - $1,200
- Edelbrock Multi-Point EFI - '97-'92 Chevy SB = $950 / '93-'95 Chevy SB = $1,100
- Turbo City TBI Unit (PN 970-100) - $1,200
However, before you go and drop a quick thousand dollars, I would suggest that you look at your sensors (oxygen sensor, MAP sensor, mass airflow sensor, knock sensor, throttle position sensor, etc.) and make sure that they're all fine. You'd also be surprised what an out-of-time engine can do as well. (Had a similar experience a year ago with a '92 Chevy).
Another thought is that many people make aftermarket replacement Injectors and other TBI parts. Accell, Turbo City, Bosch are just a few.
If you can, try and find a good repair manual that will allow you to take Ohm and Volt readings on the sensors. You may just have a sensor that was bad and was aggrevated by putting in a hotter motor.
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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davidmiddleton
Bone Stock
Posts:18
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| 10/19/2004 10:04 AM |
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| thanks,
i'll keep you posted!
dave |
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sublmnl1990
Body Lift
Posts:195
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| 10/19/2004 8:35 PM |
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| Not to say the Holley is not a good thing I had it 2 suburbans ago and never was able to get it dialed in, It seemed that everytime the weather changed so did the set up. Hey but thats just me and no I didnt ride the short bus to school. Later Nick |
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You know it's going to be a good day when you get the milk to cereal ratio correct on the first bowl. |
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sublmnl1990
Body Lift
Posts:195
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| 10/19/2004 8:37 PM |
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| I say go with a supercharger and a blower!!!!!!!!!!!! Giddy Up! |
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You know it's going to be a good day when you get the milk to cereal ratio correct on the first bowl. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 10/20/2004 11:06 AM |
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The Holley Projection unit that my Tech Editor runs is located in Tucson, Arizona, where the environment doesn't change a lot or with any magnitude... this might explain why he was able to get it dialed in and requires relatiely infrequent tunings. It did take a long time to get it dialed in and he reports that he only has to make a few tweaks every once in a while.
On the other hand, my Turbo City unit is NOT manually adjustable (it's automatic) and has serviced me well for a long time... except for the "running a bit rich" issue. |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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davidmiddleton
Bone Stock
Posts:18
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| 10/25/2004 10:32 PM |
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| Rick,
I double ckecked the timing of my ignition system last weekend. It was set a 0 degrees per specifications. Just on a whim I advanced the timing to 4 degrees and was amazed at the difference. Thanks for the idea! The lower end does not seem to hesitate as much and the idle doesn't seem to loap as much. Top end is pulling even harder.
Dave |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 10/25/2004 10:43 PM |
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Glad that worked out for you! Better than dropping a ton of cash on a new TBI unit huh? [)]
RW
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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davidmiddleton
Bone Stock
Posts:18
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| 10/26/2004 5:37 PM |
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| Hey Rick,
New Problem! Now that the thing is running close to the way I think it should, I have a hard code 45 (rich o2 signal). My best guess is the computer is still having trouble dealing with the cam (O2 sensor was replaced with the old engine). Going to call turbocity and see about a chip, or do you think maybe I should consider trying a heated O2 sensor?
Dave |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 10/26/2004 9:12 PM |
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Dave,
At this point, IMHO, I'd call the exprerts and see what they say. Tell them that you made improvements by adjusting the timing and anything else you've done so that you an paint a detailed picture.
Me, I'll give something the ol' college try a few times and if it comes to spending money, I ask questions first. That's the only way I can afford to stay into the sport! ΖD]
Nick - do you have any other ideas?
Let me know what they say.
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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davidmiddleton
Bone Stock
Posts:18
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| 10/28/2004 9:34 PM |
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| Rick,
I called Turbo City today. According to them, I have to replace my t-body, instal 68#/hr injectors, istall a new chip, bump up my fuel pressure, and install a fuel injector spacer to get it running correctly.(with no guarantees) As they are all matched for optimal performance. This is all well and good, except for the fact that the price is around $900. I did not drop the "Rick Webster from 4x4 Review.com", but I doubt it would have made any difference. It sounds to me like price gouging(spelling?) since they are the only firm I have found with the particular product I am interested in. I guess I should have just converted to a carb setup when I had the money[:(]
Dave |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 10/28/2004 11:15 PM |
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Hmmmmmmmmm.... The guys at Turbo City have always treated me and the people I've sent to them very fairly. They've always been very knowledgable and honest too. I'm certainly not saying anything one way or the other, just letting you know the history I've had with them.
I wonder if at this point you might be better off with an adjustable F.I. kit like a Holley one, although you'll be at about the same price.
How hot is the cam you put in that motor? Did you do anything else to it to bump performance?
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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davidmiddleton
Bone Stock
Posts:18
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| 11/01/2004 5:01 PM |
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| Rick,
I'm not saying the price was "unfair", just seemed like a lot. The cam I am running has
[.435"I and .460"E., Duration @.050 is 212DegreesIntake and 222degrees Exhaust]. The only other modifications are the TBI intake and a flowmaster 3 inch cat back system.
I may just get the computer chip for $250 and leave the rest alone for now(haven't decided yet). The truck runs better than most anyway, so I may just live with it the way it is, even though I would prefer to have it running perfectly.
Dave |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 11/02/2004 8:11 PM |
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Dave,
The cam seems like a pretty good setup... not too hot, but nicely rounded out.
What type of intake are you running? Is there a chance that the intake could be mismatched?
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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davidmiddleton
Bone Stock
Posts:18
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| 11/09/2004 8:06 PM |
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| Rick,
The intake is the only one that GM offers for the TBI and vortec heads(P/N 12496821). I can't imagine it being a bad combination(not to say that GM can't make a mistake), but I'm assuming this combination was the modivation for designing an intake for this app.
Dave
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 11/10/2004 8:41 AM |
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| OK... I thought it was an aftermarket performance intake or something. You're likely good to go in that area then. |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 11/14/2004 2:36 PM |
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Dave, what ever came of this? Did you ever get it more dialed in?
Rick
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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Colorado Cruiser
Bone Stock
Posts:20
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| 12/02/2004 6:40 PM |
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| Id stay away from turbo city. I just did fuel injection on my 350 and they were jerks when I called them. I went with the howell MPI and have not regretted it. Just my .02 |
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