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ChevyMan0784
Lift & Lockers
Posts:699
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| 09/04/2007 7:24 AM |
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Ok, now this is really strictly for wheeling, or offroad only vehicles. With maybe 10-20 percent street usage. So fuel milage is not applicable here... just pure strength, durability, and gearing, and ease of maintenece should be considered.
Which GM tranny is the best for the dirt?
This poll contains both Auto, and Standard |
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gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 09/04/2007 7:12 PM |
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Sorry guys - I couldn't resist a plug here... This is an article I did recently which addressed this VERY same topic. Maybe there's something here that's useful?
http://www.4x4review.com/tech/Top10Trans/
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 09/04/2007 7:14 PM |
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Hey ChevyMan - you forgot the SM420. Arguably, the toughest, best stick-shift transmission ever made. It has the lowest available first gear and can soak up as much power as you can throw at it.
Quick Specs:
Length: 10.4"
Height 17"
Weight: 137 lbs.
Case: Cast iron
Gearing: 7.02, 3.57, 1.70, 1.00
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 09/04/2007 8:07 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by webby4x4
Hey ChevyMan - you forgot the SM420. Arguably, the toughest, best stick-shift transmission ever made. It has the lowest available first gear and can soak up as much power as you can throw at it.
Quick Specs:
Length: 10.4"
Height 17"
Weight: 137 lbs.
Case: Cast iron
Gearing: 7.02, 3.57, 1.70, 1.00
Rick
The SM420 does have a deeper first gear (7.05 vs 6.56) and a deeper reverse (7.05 vs 6.09) but I would rate the SM465 as a stronger tranny and a better shifting one too. SM465's saw usage in MD trucks behind big block motors for many years and life does not get much tuffer than that for a tranny. The 420 and 465 stood for rated input torque capacity back then. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 09/05/2007 7:12 AM |
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If you were off-roading your dump-truck, I would agree... ;)
However, Unless you're running a 700 HP nitrous injected truck, I'll take the deeper gearing every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
I had an SM420 in a 450 HP F/S Blazer and beat the ever-living snot out of it for 3 years. The 420 soaked up everything I could possibly throw at it without fail. I went through two rear axles and a T-case in the mean time.
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 09/05/2007 11:35 AM |
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| To me I would take the SM465, the difference in first in minimal and it is a better box overall. GM seems to get taller and taller with each new manual tranny though as the NV4500 "had" a 6.34 "granny" from 92 to 94 and a 5.61 reverse. In mid 94 "granny" went to 5.61 and in 97 reverse when to 5.01. |
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Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
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ChevyMan0784
Lift & Lockers
Posts:699
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| 09/06/2007 3:43 AM |
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| Well, I personally have never owned an SM460. But this information does peak my interest!! I have had all of the above minus the 460. And I have come to absolutely love the 465. You just cant beat the durability, gearing, ease of use, and ease of maintainence. I have smoked 3 700R4's, countless THM350's... and the only auto I have ever had that was worth a dime was the Powerglide. And as far as the standards go, they used that 465 for so long for a reason. Not that the other standards (mind you I have never owned a 420) are bad in any way, but for my low gear applications I really like the 465. The 5 spd is great, but I dont need the extra gear as much where I live... And I really do love the KISS moto (keep it simple stupid). It really says it all. |
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gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 09/06/2007 8:13 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by ChevyMan0784
I have smoked 3 700R4's, countless THM350's...
If you did it kinda was out of stupidity in that those trannies are pretty sturdy and the only way you could toast that many is either by neutral shooting it a lot or running big tires with tall axles ratio and improper cooling because I have plowed snow and towed many for many many year and I have yet to have killed my first automatic tranny. I have a 18 year old 700R4 with 180K plus miles on it in my burb and it still work like new. (it has a factory tow package and aux cooler and has had regular fluid and filter changes all its life) |
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Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 09/06/2007 4:50 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SnoMan
quote:
Originally posted by ChevyMan0784
I have smoked 3 700R4's, countless THM350's...
If you did it kinda was out of stupidity...
Getting a little frosty, aren't you, SnoMan?
While I agree that the 700R4's are incredible tranmissions, there were a few years (the first couple of years) that they were prone to failure, even without running big tires. Early model 700R4's were prone to overheating (even in stock form), there were mal-configured lock-up converter switches, and many had inadequate oiling properties due to poorly fluted slinger gears.
I guess the point I'm making is that ChevyMan could very well have had 3 early-production 700R4's that were buggy.
Example: My stepfather is anal retentive in that he treats his vehicles like gold. Always caring for them meticulously and never, ever abuses them in any way. He typically gets well over 100,000 miles on his Chevy's before he trades them in. Yet, in one of his trucks, he went through 2 700R4 transmissions. Never did any towing, the truck was properly maintained, always had it serviced, etc.
Something to consider...
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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ChevyMan0784
Lift & Lockers
Posts:699
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| 09/06/2007 4:56 PM |
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| Well, stupidity or not... I have done it with both stock tires with stock gears and 36's with 4:72's. Now I guess a 4:72 gear ratio and 36 inch tire combo is just way too tall a gearing in your mind, but I am going to have to disagree!! lol. And a 28-30 inch tire with 3:73's shouldnt toast a tranny either. We could go into, who is building them, what was done, weather it was completely stock, or what size tires some one was running. But the fact is (for me), unless you spend 2k on your 700 you will get a pile o poo. haha, and there is something inherantly better about a THM400 than any 700R4 I have ever seen. And that would be the cast iron core (as opposed to aluminum). The 400 can take the abuse, the heat, the stress, and the power. But, dont get me wrong, I have seen many 700s built well. Just far beyond most guys budgets. |
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gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
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ChevyMan0784
Lift & Lockers
Posts:699
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| 09/06/2007 5:10 PM |
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| And Webby, I just read that article... and it is great. I think it most accurately describes those trannys. To me there are pro's and con's to all of them, and whats left is personal prefrence. |
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gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 09/06/2007 7:13 PM |
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| I still disagree. If a 700R4 had a problem it is sensitive to heat, it MUST be kept cool. A 700R4 has a pretty tall OD in it and went you lug it down a lot in OD and it unlocks converter it rides stall and lot and stall makes heat and if tranny does not have good aux cooling it can do a slow burn. I have seen a lot of them go the distance without trouble. I have towed on and off with my 89 burb since I got it and I did some towing with it last month. One was a 120 mile trip in heat and hills with 5K trailer and the other was a shorter trip with the big whale of a trailer I bought. (8.5 x 32 enclosed and it is about 6K empty). You will never convince me thaat a mature 700R4 is a bad tranny. |
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Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
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