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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 12/31/2007 8:02 PM |
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| 2003 S-10 Crew Cab (4 door) 4x |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 01/01/2008 6:12 AM |
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| You should have taken it to a spring shop. Actually adding another leaf to stack is fairly labor intensive and no going to be done fore that price at a Firestone. At this point I think I would ask for a refund because if this is not what you wanted then get it made right. |
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Visit the SnoMan at
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/01/2008 9:34 AM |
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Cheaperrooter - It sounds like they installed a "helper" spring, and on an overload leaf (a bit of a difference). Regardless, there are a several different types of helper springs out on the market. Some go on the outside of the leaf pack by bolting in place, others require the leaf spring pack to be taken apaprt and a new leaf spring is added (it's much thicker), and some look like half a spring that's been bent on the end and has a clamping mechanism on it.
So SnoMan is partially right. The one that was added to your truck didn't require the leaf pack to be taken apart, and was bolted to the inside. Typical install time = 30 minutes to 1 hour. Here are some examples:
http://www.mrtruck.net/springs.htm
http://www.stengelbros.com/HeavyDutyHelperKits.htm
http://www.roughcountry.com/hellwig.htm
an so on...
As far as the air shocks go, I'm not a big fan of them at ALL. With heavy loads, they'll last about 6 months to a year, and then they'll seals will start to fail and leak all of the time. You'll also find yourself adding air to them on a regular basis right away. And, if you add more load, you'll have to add more air, manually. Personally, I think they're worthless.
So... what do you do?
Since this is a work truck, you have a couple options, and, this can all be written off on taxes! :)
Option 1: Get new leaf spring packs made for your truck with for the average rear-end weight that your truck carries. In essence, they'll make a new set of leaf springs that are much stiffer and stronger. The down-side; the leaf springs will be super stiff when your truck is not loaded. Plus, if you add more weight, it will start to sag again. Not my favorite option here.
Option 2: Install a set of air bags from a good company like Firestone. They're VERY, VERY easy to install, they'll last forever, and will cost about the same as a new set of springs (maybe a bit more). They have a small compressor and a switch & gauge that you use to air them up and down from inside the cab. You can adjust how much extra pressure you put in the bags and your ride quality will be amazing.
We did an extensive product review on the Firestone Ride Rite air bags, which you can read at: http://www.4x4review.com/products/suspension/RideRite/
I'm not promoting the Firestone brand name, but we've been running these bags for about a year now and we love them. When the truck isn't loaded, I flip the switch and ride quality goes back to stock. When we load the truck up, I flip the switch and bring the truck to level again, and it still rides just like a stock truck.
The bag kit will run you about $250, and the compressor / switch bank will run about $200, which I'm guessing is about what you paid for your helper springs and air shocks with installation. You can do the installation yourself (it's bloody simple) in a few hours in your driveway with common hand tools.
Anyhow, I hope that helps.
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 01/01/2008 10:48 AM |
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| This is not quite true. How adding a leaf effects ride somewhat depends on the arch of it. You can get two extra leafs cut to fit at a spring shop for about 50 to 70 bucks for that truck and then labor to install them. If you have air tools they are not hard to install yourself and I have done it many times in less than 1 hour from start to finish. The helper spring you had added actually increase stress on main leaf beyond what a proper added leaf would do and will cause leaf to sag or fail with time. It also does not spread load equally to both shackles or chassis connection for spring either like a true add a leaf will. I strongly feel that the type he had added are to be strictly avoided for a long term solution. You should also get your trucks rear axle weighed to see load on it and get a better idea of what you are dealing with. |
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Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/01/2008 4:28 PM |
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What's not quite true Snoman???
First you said that adding a leaf is labor intensive, then you said it was easy.
quote:
Originally posted by SnoMan
Actually adding another leaf to stack is fairly labor intensive and no going to be done fore that price at a Firestone.
quote:
Originally posted by SnoMan
You can get two extra leafs cut to fit at a spring shop for about 50 to 70 bucks for that truck and then labor to install them. If you have air tools they are not hard to install yourself and I have done it many times in less than 1 hour from start to finish.
When you said something wasn't true, what were you talking about? |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 01/01/2008 5:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by webby4x4
What's not quite true Snoman???
First you said that adding a leaf is labor intensive, then you said it was easy.
It is easy to do yourself with right tools but if you farm it out to someplace like Firestone they would skin you for that labor. A spring shop that does it all the time should be more reasonable. THis is not a job to farm out to a average mech or shop and expect a fair price for it being done properly
quote:
Originally posted by webby4x4
When you said something wasn't true, what were you talking about?
Ride quality. The arch of the added leafs has some effect on ride quality. Been doing this for a long time on and off and you can tune them a bit for better unladen ride. |
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Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/01/2008 7:20 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by SnoMan
Ride quality. The arch of the added leafs has some effect on ride quality. Been doing this for a long time on and off and you can tune them a bit for better unladen ride.
True - You could have your rig weighed, try and find a specialty spring shop, hope they actually do installations, and then hope it's right.
Or... you could bolt on a set of air bags (that have been used by big rigs for decades) and have supreme flexibility, for about the same cost.
Matter of preference I suppose. Personally... I like the flexibility of being able to adjust.
RW |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 01/02/2008 7:49 AM |
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| I like real added spring metal myself. Never cared for air bags or air shocks to cure a overload. |
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Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/12/2008 9:28 AM |
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| Thanks guys for your input. Didnt mean to get you both battling each other. I too am like Snoman, I like steel. Webby, I went to all three "steel" sites you sent me, but they all seem to want to sell helper springs.....the real kind, full length, not the junk Firestone put on my truck bolted on the FRONT of my leaf springs only. Firestone is willing to stand behind his work, and said if I get the add a leafs, he will install them for free. But the sites all have either super springs.....or true full helper springs.... I guess I am just looking to take apart my pack, add another full lenght spring, and go from there. Any suggestions just to purchase an add a leaf and not the EXPENSIVE super, dooper, blah, blah,blah kind. Thanks again. LOuie |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/12/2008 9:57 AM |
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| In doing my own research......but I trust you more then my research, the s-10 doesnt have a whole lot available in leafs. But Desert Rat offers a full length, add on that gives 1 1/2 inches raise for $53.99, I assume for a pair. I didnt ask. He's unsure how much more capacity that would give me, but he says at least 1000 pounds. Not sure I know enoough to argue with him, but I would think that would be spelled out somewhere. I just dont want to go through all this trouble, have Firestone install them for free, and find out the new add a leaf still doesnt level out my truck. |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 01/12/2008 5:10 PM |
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| Just get out phonebook and look for a local spring shop and they can cut a drill a few leafs made to order in 10 minutes or less. A good spring shop has tons of spring blanks in different sizes for repair and build up. Two years ago a friend of mine bought a CC Chevy 2500HD and was disapointed with how soft it was in rear with his heavy tandem axle trailer attached to it. We called a local shop and he got two leafs cut to fit for about 70 bucks. We installed them in my driveway in less than a hour from start to finish with air tools when truck was a week old. The result was a stiffer spring that also looked factory original too. |
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Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/12/2008 10:34 PM |
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| I cant even find a local 4x4 shop here, much less a spring shop. That's why I was forced to deal with Firestone to begin with for my leaf spring. I was desperate. Believe me, I called around to at least 2 dozen places. No one else even wanted to touch it. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/12/2008 10:43 PM |
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Cheaperrooter - can you order some on the internet and put them on yoruself?
They really are quite easy to do - all you need are common handtools, a couple jackstands and a jack. You should be able to knock them out in a few hours at most.
Hell, I'd come over and give you a hand, if you didn't live half way across the United States! [)]
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 01/12/2008 10:43 PM |
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| Where are you located as I am curious that you cannot find one. |
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Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/14/2008 5:24 PM |
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| Sorry Snoman, didnt read that last reply. I am in Charleston, SC.
I wish they had a spring shop here, as I am having a heck of a time finding one on the internet. Seems theres not much need for an add a leaf for a S-10. Course, I can find complete sets, as in lift kits. And SUPER springs.....2 - 3 hundred bucks can be found. But a simple, everyday add a leaf? Hmmmm. AMazing. So far, Fabtech makes one, but tech said it was a soft spring, made only for lift, not wieght. I am way too cheap at this point to go with air bags, as I already have 5 bills invested in the shocks. Plus Firestone will install the leaf for FREE......What can I say. My seach for one still goes on. |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 01/14/2008 6:02 PM |
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| It is a shame, I know I can get them here from one of two places with ease. |
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Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/14/2008 6:54 PM |
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| Youre telling me. Every site on the net has add a leafs galore. But punch in 2003 s-10.......sorry, not available. Found a 20inch pair, short, stiff, JC Whitney. My FIRST real hit. I may give em a shot. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/15/2008 12:42 AM |
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Try these sites, they have the springs you need for your year / make / model.
http://www.mrtruck.net/supersprings.htm
http://www.roughcountry.com/hellwig.htm - give them a call. I'm almost positive I remember seeing an application for the S10 in a catalog.
http://www.truckspring.com/ - they have several applications for your truck with varying load capacities.
http://www.loadandtow.com/catalog_ss.asp - they have an application for your truck too.
Hope this helps,
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/15/2008 12:44 AM |
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P.S. Be very careful of what you buy from JCWhitney and check for the name brands. They do carry some quality items, but you have to check very carefully to find out who makes the products that they sell, as they are notorious for selling some absolute junk too.
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/15/2008 4:55 AM |
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| Thanks Rick. I will try all those sites. But right off the top of my head I would say you have an excellent memory about rough country. What? Do you go to bed with your tools every night? Funny, but the Rough Country you remembered.....that was also the JC Whitney hit I had last night. Rough Country. Its a 20inch shorty. Normally short means stiff. 2 reasons I didnt go ahead and get the darn thing, considering as long as I have been searching. 1) The description was all about using for FRONT leafs.....but can be used for rear on the s10. I dont know why that scared me, just did. Almost like rear s10 was an afterthought or something. 2) Tech wimp wouldn't touch the question about how much more capacity they would add. 100....200...300...pds. All he kept saying over and over like a robot was it will increase your capacity. I was like, well ok, thanks for telling me it WILL increase my capacity. Now if I may, could I ask you a question (being sarcastic)Would you happen to know WHAT that increase would happen to be? Accurate within 40% would be OK with me tonight...... |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/15/2008 7:48 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cheaperrooter
What? Do you go to bed with your tools every night?
Yeah, pretty much. [:D] My wife has promised me, that when I die, I can be buried in my '74 FJ40 - all I could say was "COOL!"
I am really surprised though that you couldn't find a set of SuperSprings for your truck - several of the sites I was researching showed that they had them in stock for your year make model.
Well... good luck with it. I think the shorty may be a bit stiff, but if it's loaded up in the rear, it might not be too bad - unloaded, it will be like riding on a brick.
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/16/2008 11:48 AM |
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| Hey Rick, they did have Super springs, but in the earlier replies above I had said that I did not want to drop the 250 - 300 for a super spring. Was looking for an everyday add a leaf. Thats where the miscommunication came from. What? You mean you dont go back and re-read all 20 replies? Come on Rick....you too hot for that...LOL |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/17/2008 9:28 PM |
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Hehehehe... touche'!
Yeah, admittedly, I forgot about that whole money part. Of course, a poor editor like myself can appreciate that! :)
Now that I'm thinking about all of this, I do have another idea that you might try. You can pickup another set of leaf springs from a junk yard for about $20 or so. You can then pull one or more leaves out of the junkyard pack and put them into your leaf pack in about an hour or two at the longest (it's bloody simple to do that). It would save you a ton of cash, and you can customize the spring rate by swapping in thinner or thicker leaves from the leaf pack.
Even if you've already bought the overload springs, if you find that it's just not enough, you can still do the junkyard leaf-pack build. Something to consider at least. ;)
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/20/2008 6:04 PM |
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| NOW YOU TELL ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/22/2008 10:36 PM |
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| yeah... sorry. I guess I could have been more punctual with my ideas, eh? ;) |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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