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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/15/2008 12:38 PM |
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| OK. Here we go. Need yet mor |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/15/2008 7:38 PM |
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Rear axle... is it more of a "whirring" sound, or a high pitched squeal? If it's a whirring sound, that will be a bit normal, but it is an indicator that you're putting more pressure and load on the R&P gears. Keep the oil changed, and continue to use Lucas - that's a wonderful oil substitute that will really help thoughts out a lot.
If it's more of a high-pitched squeal, it could be bearings, or other things at play that would be concerning.
As far as the timing chain goes... well, that's a tough call. Is an ounce of maintenance worth a pound of cure? What happens if it does break, and you're on your way to the job site? Can your business pay for it, and can you write it off on taxes?
More importantly though, I guess I need to ask how many miles are on it?
Listen... the 4.3 motor is one HELLUVA motor. It's very well built and quite solid. If the timing chain is rattling a bit and you're tight on cash, I would probably wait a few months and save up some money to have it done in the summer. But... if this is your business truck, and you rely on it daily, then you may want to expedite it a bit.
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/15/2008 8:26 PM |
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| Well Rick, the truck has 81k. The rear axle sound is def a whirring sound. No squeal. I had that rebuilt 6 months ago. Axle seals, bearings, brakes. Weight wise, I would guess the ARE Aluminum commercial topper weighs in at about 300 to 400 pds. My sewer machines about 200. Tools and parts, another 300 to 400. I am probably at, if not a tad over, 1,000 pds. I guess its a 1/2 ton for my truck, but I know total gross including fuel and people is 1388 pds. Using that figure, I think I am below max. Using 1/2 ton cargo, probably a little over. I have some crap on there now, but not like I am hauling a truck full of bricks or anything. So if this whirring sound is normal for that load, I am fine with it. Everything with me is will it do more damage if left untouched. Timing chain same thing. IF it goes, will it do further damage to my truck? I remember way back when I owned a toyota, and if the timing belt broke, the engine went to shiznit in a handbag. But if it brakes on me, and does no damage, I will wait till it breaks. I have about $6,000 invested in this truck so far.......its one thing after another. If I had known, in retrospect, I would have bought a VAN. But I figured it was here, it looks cool, its all solid black (shell painted factory match) and I am chilling. But this is a first for me, its a new plumbing business, so I am self employed as of Jan 1st. I have spent as much as I care to on this truck. The thought of new ring and pinion, or a used axle, plus $1700 timing chain (dealer price), probably 30% cheaper at another shop, and before you know it, I am pushing the 10 g envelope. SCARY. But it all happened in small increments over the last 2 months, so it wasnt noticed. Springs, shocks, tires <---- Still cant believe you cant find a load D in a 15 inch tire. I special ordered them, Pirelli's. Everyone else wanted me to buy trailer tires. Brakes, both front sealed bearing hub something or anothers.....like $270 each for the part, plus $250 labor EACH SIDE. That was $1,000 bucks for that crap. Used to be I could throw bearings in my front wheels(I am a full size Bronco fan, 78 and 79 only, but I did own a 69 Bronco with 35 inch tires and a 289 cobra engine that was cooler then an iceberg) in my driveway in about 30 minutes a wheel. I used to do it all. Now I am old and lazy and out of sync with whats going on lately with 4x4. Anyway....I am burnt on my expensive, but gorgeous looking plumbing rig. Its a very unique looking truck. Different. I get alot of looks. But if this keeps up, I am going to have to go back to being a backyard mechanic again. I knew how far out of sync I was when I said "BEARINGS? $270? Man, I can knock that out in a second." I'm an old man, 47, in a new world. Anyway, Axle and timing chain? If it wont hurt if it fails, and if you think it wont fail to begin with, thats all I need to know. I have learned to trust this site with anything pertaining to trucks. Louie |
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ChevyMan0784
Lift & Lockers
Posts:699
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| 01/15/2008 10:16 PM |
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| Wow I cannot believe that they are trying to charge you 1700 dollars to replace a timing chain on that thing. That is really a one day by yourself job for the cost of some RTV-5 bucks, Timing chain-150 bucks max, antifreeze, and maybe a couple other things like new water pump seals (2 bucks). I say whip out the tool set call a couple buddys, tell em you got beer and get er done man. If you cant do it yourself...find another company to do it man. That is a rip off. I mean, I am sure it adds up somewhere....but dang...1700??? Sorry, enough with the rant. I would fix it before it causes other damage to your valve train and potentially pistons. I dont know, what do you think Webby? 1700 dollars sound fair on that? I have never paid for it to be done myself. |
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gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/16/2008 2:11 PM |
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| Well, I found a guy to do it on BARTER....after all, I am a plumber. THANK GOD. I supply the parts. Course, I have to replace his waterlines under the house. But.....the parts OEM at Chevy is only $58 for the chain AND 2 sprockets. Sounds way too cheap to me. But heres the kicker. This service bulletin says to install a chain tensioner (was not original equipment) to take care of rattle when chain looses up. Why on earth they didnt design these 4.3 with the understanding that a chain will sretch to begin with, and it was an after thought to add a tensioner is beyond my imagination. But this NEW part is $236. I am wondering whether I really need it. It is optional. Figure I can get 75k more before chain loosens up again. What do you think? Am I being cheap? $58 or almost $300. Hmmmmmmmm |
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ChevyMan0784
Lift & Lockers
Posts:699
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| 01/16/2008 5:01 PM |
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| Check this out. Call Summit racing, ask for a "gear to gear" timing gearset. Gears dont stretch and those are usually guaranteed for life. Mine was. Webby helped me out with some tips when I went to do all of that. So thank him for that tid bit of info. I have NEVER been happier with the gearset. It cost me 149 and I will NEVER need a tensioner. And it is just as easy to install as a chain. It will whine, and set off your knock sensor...so you will want to see if you can get around the sensor some how, like disconnect it maybe. And if not, do exactly what YOU said and go with a new chain, and forget about it man. You have some one to do it for "free", do it up man. Nothing to loose in my opinion. |
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gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/16/2008 5:21 PM |
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| You had me going ChevMan till you said it would WHINE.....how bad? I hate noises. Its the main reason I want the chain rattle fixed. Sounds like crap. Is this whine noticable? I already have a rear axle whine, hell, if I am lucky, maybe that will override the gear to gesr whine....LOL |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/17/2008 10:21 AM |
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They're pretty noisy, unless you specifically order quiet gear sets. They sound a lot like a blower winding up.
If you get a double-roller timing chain from someone like Hayes or Cloyes, then you won't stretch it. They're rated for many hundreds of horsepower beyond what your engine can put out. It would take many many moons to stretch a good timing chain - for what that's worth. [)]
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/17/2008 2:18 PM |
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| Ok, So Rick, seeing as how I am cheap, broke, and looking to get the chain done, would you say OEM chain is good enough ($58)? I am shocked its loose at only 82k. Makes me think that another 75 from now, it will do it again, and I will probably have this truck 75k from now. I know people that have 175 k on a 4.3 with NO chain rattle. |
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ChevyMan0784
Lift & Lockers
Posts:699
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| 01/17/2008 2:41 PM |
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| I would say if it took that long to start to rattle, its a safe bet to just replace with an OEM or aftermarket chain (like Rick was saying.) If you dont like the whine, the chain is probably better. But, as Rick was saying, they do sell the quiet sets. Just make sure that if you get a chain set, that it DOES NOT have the nylon sprockets. I dont know when they stopped making that style, do you know Rick? |
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gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/17/2008 9:09 PM |
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Sorry for the lag guys... it's been one heckuva week!
Anyhow... that price seems obscenely high. I was looking at Autozone.com, Summitracing.com and Jegs.com and see them ranging from $17 to $37, many of which are double-roller timing chains.
I would stay away from an OE (Dealership) part, as their prices are incredibly high in comparison. Also, any timing chain made from Cloyes Gear, COMP Cams, Summit, Crane Cams, Edelbrock, or Jegs will be just fine. It seems that the double-roller setups for the 4.3 L motor is only a few bucks more, and it's money well spent, especially since you're going to keep your rig.
I do agree though, that a stretched timing chain at just 82K miles is peculiar. That seems about 20-30K miles too early. Anyhow, if you can swing $30 from autozone, OReilly, Checker, etc. - I would spend the extra few bucks on a double-roller set.
Lastly, changing the timing chain on your 4.3 can be done yourself in about 4-6 hours (assuming that you've not done one before and you're using hand tools). If you're up to the task, get a Chilton or Haynes manual and give it a go. It's pretty easy actually and you'll save $1500 or more that way.
Heck... buy a case of beer or two and invite a mechanically-inclined friend over to give you a hand. ;)
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/17/2008 9:30 PM |
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| Sorry Rick, but one more question to be specific. Is ANY double roller chain good? You say a double roller FROM these guys. I am not an expert, but I think what you are saying is that ANY double roller will not stretch, regardless of where I purchase it. Is that true? Thanks again. Louie |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/17/2008 9:37 PM |
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Don't be sorry man, this is exactly why we have the boards!
Anyhow, I'm sure there is some company out there that makes a crappy double-roller timing chain. If you choose a brand-name timing chain that is a double-roller, you'll have less problems (like any automotive accessory / replacement part for that matter). The double-roller doesn't necessarily keep it from stretching, it's more of a chain strength and lower-resistance issue.
When you buy a timing chain from someone like Cloyes, Comp, Crane, etc. you'll know that it's made from quality metal and with a quality process, and there is typically only a few dollars difference between them, so it's worth the extra few bucks.
I'll put this into perspective... The last motor I just built (5 months ago) was a 400 HP / 500 lb.ft torque 383 stroker motor with Holley EFI system, aluminum heads, Lunati rotating assembly, etc. I would have felt very compafortable putting any name brand double-roller timing chain in it. I wouldn't have felt comfortable putting a non-name brand timing chain in it though (double-roller or not).
In my hunble opinion, I think it's worth the extra few bucks to put a quality timing chain in an engine.
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/17/2008 10:13 PM |
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| I know you say dont say I am sorry.....but I know you guys have better things to do then hold my hand. But Rick, heres the deal. I found many Cloyes.....but they are not double roller. Course, I hang by every word you say mind you. Also being told that the double roller will not fit behind my stock timing cover....So is Cloyes good enough NOT in double roller version? |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/17/2008 10:21 PM |
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Cloyes is, in my opinion, one of the finest makers of timing chains. If the double-roller won't fit in the 4.3L, then I would strongly recommend going with a Cloyes (or Comp).
You won't have to worry about stretch NEARLY as much with a high-quality timing chain, vs. a cheap non-name-brand chain. Again... it's all about the build and material quality, which Cloyes is famous for.
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/17/2008 10:23 PM |
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P.S. - I'd be shocked, amazed, awed and dumbfounded if your 75K mile engine will outlast a new Cloyes timing chain... You'll probably get 80-100,000 miles on a new Cloyes unit, or more.
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/19/2008 5:13 AM |
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As usual, I went with your advice Rick. Unfortunately, I got mis-information from all the sites....Jegs.....Summit.....Autozone....plus a few of my own.
There was a major confusion as to whether a double roller was available and also if it would fit inside standard timing cover. Some said it would.....some said it wont. So after it became apparent that I could no longer trust TECH advise at these sites, I went to the horses nmouth....and called Cloyes. A DOUBLE WILL not fit without diff timing cover, but if it was plastic cover, I wouldnt know it wouldnt fit unless I pulled it off later after install as then I would notice a rubbing inside of it. He reccomended a C3092 kit which was a non double, but stepped up chain from thier own base chain. Almost as good as it gets in a single. Got it here local at NAPA for $86. Base chain was $40. So after all the writing and fanfare, I have gained the following from this site. Before I wrote, I was going to purchase an OEM chain for $58, and then an timing chain tensioner for $200 to prevent it from happening again. This was DEALER advice.....Mr. Goodwrench at work again. Now I have spent $86, told the tensioner where to stick it at, and have a chain that wont stretch. In addition, I have the fun of knowing that I have something to hang over Ricks head later if it stretches down the road. PS. Firestone put on those shorty leaf springs.......the truck LOOKS great, and went over bumps fantastically, rock solid now with my load. Air shocks were at 120 psi to level the load, now they are at 70 psi. Its pefect in my book. Now, if I ever return the truck to NO LOAD status........ |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 01/19/2008 8:21 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by cheaperrooter
As usual, I went with your advice Rick.
That was your FIRST mistake! Hehehe... [)]
quote:
Originally posted by cheaperrooter
I went to the horses nmouth....and called Cloyes...
Now that's taking the bull by the horns.
quote:
Originally posted by cheaperrooter
He reccomended a C3092 kit which was a non double, but stepped up chain from thier own base chain.
Sounds like the perfect setup for your application. I promise you, you won't be disppointed.
quote:
Originally posted by cheaperrooter
Got it here local at NAPA for $86...
If I might offer a piece of "after-action" advice for your next adventure, NAPA is typically at LEAST 25% more expensive than AutoZone, OReilly, Checker and Pep Boys. I have no idea why, but those stores just bend people over, have them grab their ankles and give them the high-hard one. Anyhow, I checked pricing online and called a few stores and in this case, it looks like you got a pretty good deal. Jegs and Summit are cheaper, but I'm sure shipping/handling would get it to about the same price. Anyhow, the moral of the story here is that typically you'll get it a LOT cheaper at any place other than NAPA, but you did get a good deal on this chain set - good job!!!
quote:
Originally posted by cheaperrooter
So after all the writing and fanfare, I have gained the following from this site. Before I wrote, I was going to purchase an OEM chain for $58, and then an timing chain tensioner for $200 to prevent it from happening again. This was DEALER advice.....Mr. Goodwrench at work again.
I'm surprised you didn't hear "But wait, there's more! If you act right now, and purchase a new engine, we'll throw in a set of world-famouse, high quality steak knives at no extra cost. But you have to act right now!" - yeah, dealerships are rough. They're the only place in the universe where automotive parts are more expensive than NAPA. [)]
quote:
Originally posted by cheaperrooter
Now I have spent $86, told the tensioner where to stick it at
Now that's funny!
quote:
Originally posted by cheaperrooter
In addition, I have the fun of knowing that I have something to hang over Ricks head later if it stretches down the road.
Ummm... yeah, that won't do you any good for two reasons:
1) I won't live that long. That chain will likely outlast you, me and my kids.
2) I will disavow any knowledge or recollection of this conversation happening whatsoever. In fact, this message will self-destruct in 12 seconds (you may want to duck!).
quote:
Originally posted by cheaperrooter
PS. Firestone put on those shorty leaf springs.......the truck LOOKS great, and went over bumps fantastically, rock solid now with my load. Air shocks were at 120 psi to level the load, now they are at 70 psi. Its pefect in my book. Now, if I ever return the truck to NO LOAD status...[/quote]
Sweet! You can also write all of this off as a business expense and same a few bucks on your biz taxes in the next month or two.
In the end, I'm really glad that this all came together for you. Glad we could help!
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 01/19/2008 9:12 AM |
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| That was hysterical Rick. It really was. Yeah, the same set on the net was anywhere 58 to 67, BUT, I needed it by next Wed, as the truck has a Thur morning appt. with the barter dude.....3 1/2 hour drive from my house. NONE of the sites could have it by then without a next day air charge of $23. None of the sites had it in stock and was going to be an order from factory and shipped directly here. So after adding the $23 to the low of $58, it pretty much matched NAPA head on. I too stay clear of NAPA. I tried Autozone first, but oddly enough, it didnt show as an on site item that could even be ordered period. Only from their website. That seemed stupid to me. So there you go, told you all of this just so youd know........... |
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