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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 03/29/2008 7:42 PM |
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| Rick, you said I should go, or |
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sammy 87
Street Queen
Posts:107
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| 03/29/2008 8:22 PM |
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| randys ring & pinon sells all types of gears and has their own brand yukon they also sell non noisy and noisy. and since it is a gm go for a 12 bolt if you have 6 lug 5 lug 44 is your opt or ford nine inch but y have a ford in a gm product? also if it is an 8 lug 14 bolts and dana 60s are pretty much easy to find more money. the 44 is more common than a 12 bolt but a 12 bolt is an equivilant to a 9inch many dragsters use a 12 bolt and c-clip eliminators. |
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Dan Pitts
Body Lift
Posts:232
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| 03/30/2008 2:15 PM |
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| sounds like this is a daily driver and if that is the case i would just go ahead and have it rebuilt. and do use gm parts. there quality is way better than the aftermarket parts. |
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Danny Pitts
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lift it, fat chicks can't jump |
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sammy 87
Street Queen
Posts:107
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| 03/30/2008 6:14 PM |
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| hey danny aftermarket parts are suposed to be BETTER |
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Dan Pitts
Body Lift
Posts:232
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| 03/30/2008 7:08 PM |
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| yea and i am suppose to be rich and have any gurl i want. as you can see suppose to be is a bunch of crap. if it doesnt say gm on it, it is junk. gm parts in gm vehicles always and they will last alot longer. |
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Danny Pitts
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lift it, fat chicks can't jump |
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sammy 87
Street Queen
Posts:107
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| 03/30/2008 7:48 PM |
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| danny why is it they make after market axles shafts for the oem gm rear and they last alot longer. like when i twisted off the axle shaft in the tj i bought an after market shaft and beat it harder than i ever did the old one and it hasnt broken yet knock on wood. and do you really think gm make gears i doubt it il bet dana or takes part in it some were. just like yoda axles il bet Aisin makes them. yoda trucks and sammys have the same rear end deisign sammys just smaller and same goes for the front |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 03/31/2008 11:23 AM |
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| Well, I finally found a genuine good ole 4 x 4 shop. About 30 miles outside charleston. They said a ford 9 Or A DANA 44 would not fit my truck, as the axles are way too wide. But he said he would rebuild the rear axle for around $1000.....$500 cheaper then the other guys. |
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Dan Pitts
Body Lift
Posts:232
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| 03/31/2008 5:47 PM |
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| k ryan you are full of it. tell me why a aftermarket distributor wont last half the time a factory one will. and on top of that tell me why i have broke like 5 master cylinder that are after market when the original last 160,000 with 33s on it. dont get me wrong yea there are some things that are made after market that can be better. but for the most of the time the top of the line stuff is the stuff that comes from the factory. and as to your jeep and the rear axle you are the third owner and you have no idea how hard the first to guys beat on it. lets ask the guys on the forum whens the last time they have heard of a jeep wrangler with 40,000 on it break every dtivetrain componet on it except for the engine. i mean everything. thats irrelivant. |
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Danny Pitts
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lift it, fat chicks can't jump |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 03/31/2008 6:14 PM |
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| Ok guys.......enough. Grow up a little, huh? If you want to argue, do it on your OWN posts at least. Now, with that said, the deal is simply this, and it will ALWAYS be this. OEM, after market, super market......whatever. Somethings in OEM are better then after market, and some things after market are better then OEM. After market is a very BROAD stroke at best. For one OEM item, there are thousands AFTER MARKET. Just saying after market doesn't say diddly squat. What are we comparing to OEM? The best after market or the cheapest and the worse? It's not like there is only ONE aftermarket replacement product for every ONE OEM part made........Use your heads guys....think it out. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 03/31/2008 7:14 PM |
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Hey Louis, your guy at the 4X4 shop was, for the most, part, accurate... The Ford 9" and the D44 is a wider axle in most cases. However, each of those applications came in varying widths. For example, the Dana 44 in a Jeep Cherokee or a Chevy pickup was far wider than the newer Dana 44 found in the new Jeep JK's.
For your application, an axle upgrade may be appropriate, but I think that you'll find that the more you upgrade, the more you will expose other weak links in your 1/4 ton truck, that is seeing 1/2 ton or even 3/4 ton duty. In my humble opinion, I think that you'll end up throwing good money after bad.
Example... you've upgraded your suspension to deal wtih the droop that you were experiencing. Now that you've beefed up the suspension, your rear axle is showing signs of its limitations. Lets say you upgrade that axle... Your transmission or transfer case will likely be next. So, where does it end?
I hate to say this, but I think you really need to upgrade to a 1/2 or 3/4 ton vehicle. Something that is designed to deal with hauling heavy loads around all of the time.
I know money doesn't grow on trees, and it's easier said than done, but again in my humble opinion, I think you'll find that each time you fix a part that is going south, that you'll find another 1/4 ton component that will start to fail. After another repair or two, you may have just paid for a nice, used 1/2 ton truck.
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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sammy 87
Street Queen
Posts:107
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| 03/31/2008 8:02 PM |
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rick has a great point and i figured you had a full size truck not like an s10 blazer or jimmy or even bravada thats about the only 1/4 tons i can think of gm offered.
and danny you bought your master cyl from AUTOZONE and probly the dist the same place. the co that makes the autoparts parts are in china and other cheap crappy qualiy countrys and aint as good as oem
and cheaperrooter danny and i arent really arguing much somthings we just have diff opions on and dissagree somtimes. have you been to other forums??? this happens alot. were all trying to think of the best thing for YOU
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 03/31/2008 9:15 PM |
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| Alright......alright........ALRIGHT!!!!!! Time to can the truck....I guess. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 04/01/2008 7:58 AM |
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| Hehehehe... Just be sure NOT to buy a Diesel. $120 to fill my tank last week was BRUTAL!!! |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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Dan Pitts
Body Lift
Posts:232
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| 04/01/2008 9:46 AM |
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| yea me and sammy 87 are actually really good friends in real life. oem aftermarket debate is one we debate alot and that is all it is a debate when we get tired of argueing were done. hahaha but yea if you have a 1/4 ton truck with a 10 bolt in it you may as well just sell it now. get the right truck for the right job. |
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Danny Pitts
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lift it, fat chicks can't jump |
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ChevyMan0784
Lift & Lockers
Posts:699
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| 04/01/2008 10:58 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by webby4x4
Hehehehe... Just be sure NOT to buy a Diesel. $120 to fill my tank last week was BRUTAL!!!
I just cant believe that diesel is MORE expnsive than gasoline. And by a good amount too. WTF?!?!?!? Let me tell you, nothing has changed in the oilfield I work in to neccesitate such a high price. |
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gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 04/01/2008 11:16 AM |
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I know! It's completely ridiculous. Refinement for Diesel is less timely and cheaper (so I've been told).
I belive that they (the oil companies) are doing this because it's their last captive market. JP4 and JP8 (jet fuel) is nearly the same as diesel. So, if you combine JP4, JP8 and Diesel, that makes up nearly 50% of all of the fuel consumption in the U.S.
The oil companies know that they have a captive market and they can sock it to the big businesses. They can't do that as easily to the consumer though, because there will be big consequences, and the consumer market is very fickle.
In the end though, we ALLLL pay for it. Jerks!!!
Listen, I'm ont a conspiracy theorist or a tree hugger, but I can't wait until I can put a Hydrogen engine in my '74 FJ40 and give the oil companies both middle fingers! :) |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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ChevyMan0784
Lift & Lockers
Posts:699
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| 04/01/2008 12:11 PM |
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| Hahahaha, yea that would be cool. But they would find a way to monopolize that too. And on the refinement of diesel, it is actually a by product of the refinement of gasoline. So less expensive is correct. Bastages. |
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gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 04/01/2008 3:30 PM |
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| I mean why not....sell it for $10 a gallon. It's a moot point. It's something we HAVE to buy. I don't know what took the blood sucking low life soooooo long to raise it as it is. I still remember when gas hit a dollar a gallon.....it's was mutuny. Even a good, solid christian man like myself was filling and driving off in my younger, stupider days. And OK guys as far as the arguing goes. I'm cool. It's just gonna cost you a new cargo van. It's soooo cool looking. I'll post a pic of my former work truck later on. In reality, I am just gonna rebuild the rear and go with it. I know, I know, I know. LEAVE ME ALONE. I alrwady admitted I was stupid and hardheaded. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 04/01/2008 7:12 PM |
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LMAO!!! What's the old saying? "Admission is the first..."? :)
You crack me up Louis. Listen though, seriously... If you're going to rebuild your axle, take a peek at this article we did about 8 years ago. http://www.4x4review.com/products/drive_train/ordaxles.asp
I'm pretty sure that your S10 has a 10-bolt rear axle. If so, it's actually, in many cases, just as strong as a Dana 44, and with some good planning can easily be as strong as a Dana 44. Read through it and let me (us, Maverick) know if you have any questions. We'll be glad to answer them.
P.S. I remember when gas broke $1.25 when I was 17 and I was quite freaked out!
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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sammy 87
Street Queen
Posts:107
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| 04/01/2008 9:08 PM |
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| i got 3 10 bolts laying around s10 ones you could also buy a full size axle and have it shortend but idk how much that would set ya back |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 04/02/2008 7:29 AM |
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Going with the same axle (10 bolt), and shortenning it would be a real waste of money though... you wouldn't gain anything from it.
RW |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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ChevyMan0784
Lift & Lockers
Posts:699
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| 04/02/2008 11:25 AM |
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| Yea, if you were going to shorten something...make it worth it and do a 9". INMO |
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gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 04/03/2008 6:30 AM |
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I read the article Rick. Thanks. Yes, there is something you can help me with. Thanks so much for offering. That was really nice of you. I need about $3,000 in cash. If you could pass the hat around.......I would give you my hat, but the smell of sewer on it is pretty raw.
I am pleased to hear they say my axle is as strong as a Dana 44, but was that in axles, to say axle shafts....or ring and pinion? I didnt hear them say much about that...just shafts. Thanks. |
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Dan Pitts
Body Lift
Posts:232
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| 04/03/2008 5:54 PM |
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| your axle is almost as strong but not really. i blew one up at about 145mph in my camaro. thats why its 4 sale but anyways. in these axles its usally not the axle shafts that go but the ring and pinions or the bearings. the axle shafts them selves are pretty darn strong. |
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Danny Pitts
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lift it, fat chicks can't jump |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 04/05/2008 10:03 AM |
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The Corporate 10-bolt has had a bad wrap for many, many years in the 4X4 world because of one thing... C-Clip axles. When the axle shaft breaks, it almost always breaks where the axle shaft necks down, near the splines. And, when this happens, it allows the tire, brake mechanism and entire axle shaft to slide right out of the axle housing. I've never heard of this happening in normal street driving conditions or even with heavy towing / hauling. It usually happens when someone runs a locker in one of these axles and has a tire bound up in the rocks or uses excessive horsepower.
The Corp 10-bolt and the Dana 44 are both 1/2 ton rated axles and were both engineered to handle nearly identical forces (e.g. top loads, lateral loads, torsional loads, etc.). The ring and pinion gear on the Corp 10 bolt is actually slightly STRONGER than the Dana 44, almost entirely due to the fact that the pinion gear's shaft has a larger diameter.
The Dana 44 has better axle shafts though in that they don't neck down as much as the Corp 10-bolt, which makes the shafts stronger. The difference in housing strengths is marginal at best, where the Dana 44 is slightly better built. However, I have seen far more 44 housings bent and broken than I have seen 10-bolt housings bent and broken - perhaps because the c-clip axles break before the housing is deformed?
Listen, I'm a big fan of the Dana 44 (a really big fan), and you wouldn't catch me running a corp 10-bolt in any 4x4 rig ever, but only because of those silly c-clip axle designs. With a new set of chromoly axle shafts, the 10-bolt can easily be stronger than a stock D44. I know... I'm the guy who told CheaperRooter to swap to a D44 in the beginning anyhow. :)
So, where does this leave us? This really comes down to reliability for a specific purpose... Since CheaperRooter isn't taking his S10 off road and onto any nasty trails, it's really about what he can do to his axle for dependability, without breaking the bank.
Let’s get back to the rooter of the problem (pun intended). ;)
In this post (http://www.4x4review.com/discussions2/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4705), you said that your rear axle is getting louder and louder when you are giving the truck gas, and not when coasting. I'm about 99.9% sure that this is a gear set issue, and not anything else. So, what can you do???
You should consider getting a new set of HIGH QUALITY gears and having those installed. Definitely change out all of the bearings and have the axle thoroughly inspected by a qualified axle technician. The axle housing may be tweaked, so be sure to have it inspected for true-ness too. If it is bent, then the whole axle is toast. I've heard of some shops re-bending the tubes using chains and hydraulic rams - do NOT do this. The integrity of the axle tube is compromised and this is a very temporary fix, especially given the top-loads you put on your axle.
Find a good axle shop and have them order the highest quality R&P gears (something like "US Gear"). There are two types of gears... shiznitty gears and really good gears, and not a whole lot in between. Most gear companies use cheap steel mined from Mexico or South America and the metal smelting process is quite inferior. You can also order a set of R&P gears from someone like Reider Racing or Randy's Ring & Pinion as they don't sell cheap stuff.
In the end, if you're on a budget, I would have the R&P gears replaced and have Timken bearings (or equivalent) put into the housing at all ends. This should buy you some more time, until you come to the realization that you really need a 1/2 ton truck, and not a 1/4 ton truck. :)
P.S. Do you have change for a $3,000 bill?
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 04/06/2008 7:45 PM |
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| Wow!!!! I knew my humor would prompt you to write me a long letter. I am taking it to a place in Charleston called Low Country 4X4. They seem to have it together, and at $1,000 versus $1500 that everyone else wanted, I assume they do this gull time, so are better at it. Of course, I so have ome more question...... I am being told that if (not by the low country 4x4)I use HIGH quality and not OEM, that they come with a warning they COULD make noise. Your input on that is needed. Also, is there a chance in hell that something just needs to be tweaked in there??? I hope, I hope, I hope. Thanks Rick. Promise, no more axle questions after this. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 04/07/2008 7:15 AM |
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LOL... ask all the questions you want, we'll just keep answering them! Plus, it's good for our advertisers. :)
OK... yes, there is a possibility that something needs to be tweaked in there, but don't get your hopes up. Rear ends VERY seldomly just get our of alignment.
And yes, most high quality, high carbon-count, performance gears can be noisier. I know that part of the reason for this is the face cutting that is on the drive and coast side of the gears, and I've been told that the other reason is because the pattern allows for deeper and more efficient contact of the teeth between the gear sets. I believe both to be true.
Manufacturers try and strike a balance between low noise, efficiency and cost. Obviously, they don't want noisy gears in their axles, even if they were stronger, because the vehicles wouldn't sell. ;)
Now... that doesn't mean that these gears are going to howl and scream while you're driving down the freeway, but you may be able to hear them a bit. I'm running very aggressive gears in my rig and I can't hear them - of course I don't have a top on my rig and I'm running 35" tires. :)
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 04/07/2008 4:47 PM |
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| Advertisers? I thought this was a hobby you did for the PURE enjoyment of it. Had I known you had to find away to actually PAY for this site, I wouldn't have bothered getting to know everyone here. I'm leaving and I'm taking my breathTAKING questions with me. Go ahead and see if you can find a humorous plumber somewhere else. I dare you. I double dare you. At a minimum, I should get PAID for my questions. A buck a pop I think would do it. Now I only have 999 more questions to go before my axles paid for. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 04/08/2008 7:11 PM |
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A buck a question... sounds like a great deal.
I'll tell you what - you keep track... and you just hold your breath for that check to come in! [:D]
Here's one for you...
A plumber was called to woman's apartment in New York City to repair a leaking pipe. When he arrived he was pleased to discover that the woman was quite a luscious, well-stacked dish.
During the course of the afternoon, the two became extremely friendly. About 6:30 p.m. the phone rang, disturbing the bedroom shenanigans.
"That was my husband," she said, putting down the phone. "He's on his way home, but is going back to the office around 8 p.m.. Come back then, dear, and we can take up where we left off."
The union plumber looked at the woman in disbelief. "What? On my own time?"
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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cheaperrooter
Body Lift
Posts:152
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| 04/10/2008 8:18 AM |
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| Have to admit, thought I had heard every joke in plumbing.....that's a new one. I'll tell you the funniest plumbing joke I ever heard. Guy's been working too much, and his wife is getting lonely. One day the guy decides to come home early and surprise his wife. As he's heading around the corner, he see's a plumbing van in his driveway. He sneaks inside and see's them having sex. He goes "OH THANK GOD, SHE'S JUST HAVING AN AFFAIR....." |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 04/10/2008 8:51 AM |
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| Now THAT'S funny!!!! |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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