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Badger
Bone Stock
Posts:9
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| 03/18/2005 5:45 PM |
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Ok, this should be a "no brainer" but it's driving me nuts.
Have a 1993 Wrangler, 2.5 engine, 5 speed manual transmission.
I have had poor cranking speed on the engine hot or cold for a while. My battery died so we got a new one in January. The starter was suspect as was the cables. (The former owner had cut the ends off and put the clamp on types so the wires were corroded.)
So we put on new cables (factory) and a rebuilt starter. The cables are clean, the terminals are clean, grounds were wire brushed and the starter is even grounded to the engine ground where the battery negative cable grounds.
We still have slow cranking and sometimes it's so slow it won't start when hot.
The alternator puts out 14.8 volts across the terminals when running and even with 12.8 volts, we have problems cranking. It seems really slow compared to other vehicles.
The battery tests ok as supposedly does the starter but I have doubts about the starter because it cranks slower than my old one did.
So, any ideas? |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 03/18/2005 10:20 PM |
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Badger - since you didn't replace the starter, that would be the first thing I would suspect. While I'm certainly not doubting your mechanical abilities, there could be faulty wiring, a bad solenoid or more within.
However, I would rule out several other things first, and here are a couple of things to check, before you shell out the duckets for a new starter.
1) Check all of the ground cables and wires associated with your charing/starting system, then check them again. Any ground wires to the frame or body should have no corrosion and a clean metal-to-metal contact. (On an older engine I had once, I ran a heavy duty ground wire from one of the starter bolts to the frame, and this made a noticable difference.)
2) Check your timing and make sure it's not too far advanced or retarded. This likely won't affected how quickly your starter turns, but should affect how quickly it fires.
3) There's a remote chance that you could have a bad component in your valvetrain. If an exhasut vavle isn't opening because of a dead lifter or broken rocker arm, the starter will have to fight constant compression in the cylinder. (Have you noticed a loss in power, or a ticking sound?)
4) Could you have a blocked or plugged exhaust system? You can take a cursory glance at the exhaust tubing, muffler and catalytic converter to see if you've bashed or mashed anything on your last off-road trip. If you don't see anything noteworthy, it will be tougher to troubleshoot. However, if you replace the starter and you still have the same problem, you can unbolt the exhaust at the collector, pull it away, and see if the slow start disappears.
Give these things a try and let us know if that makes a differece.
Rick[zomb] |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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Badger
Bone Stock
Posts:9
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| 03/19/2005 12:32 AM |
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Hi Rick.
Thanks for the response.
The grounds were cleaned off and I do have a strap from the starter to the battery engine ground connection.
The cables are new as is the starter. The starter has the solenoid attached to the starter. It's a Bosch starter as opposed to the Motorcraft on the earlier models.
I can't adjust timing because it's computer controlled.
No noises from the engine when running. It runs like a top when it gets going. It's getting it there that's the problem.
The wiring is in good shape.
The exhaust is in good shape, in fact just replaced a rusted out tail pipe but the problem existed before that.
So, you see, I'm at the end of ideas as well. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 03/19/2005 10:48 AM |
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| Take the starter off and have it tested at AutoZone or Checker for free. |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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Badger
Bone Stock
Posts:9
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| 03/19/2005 7:34 PM |
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Had that done. They claim it's "good". I have doubts. Told them I'm going to have it tested elsewhere and if it's not good, they will be paying for the test.
They want me to bring it (the jeep) in and if the starter's bad, they want to change it. I don't want to pay them an hour's labour costs for a 10 minute job that I am more than capable of doing.
My first jeep was built from 2 wrecks and I did the job myself so a starter change is child's play in comparison. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 03/20/2005 7:09 PM |
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| I'd be really suspect of the starter, and after all you've done and checked, it might be worth it to look at a new starter. Bolt it up and give it a shot, if the problem still exists, return the starter and then you'll know that you're problem lies either in the electrical side, or the mechanical side (of the engine). |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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Badger
Bone Stock
Posts:9
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| 03/20/2005 7:24 PM |
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Think I'll try one from a scrap yard. Electrical items generally aren't returnable and the price of the starters is kind of expensive.
If it does turn out to be the defective rebuilt starter I can exchange that under warranty. In any event, I'll have a spare one way or the other.
Once I get this sorted out, I'll post my findings on here.
I miss my jeep! :-( |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 03/20/2005 7:33 PM |
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Sounds like it's enough to make you [barf2]!
Let us know what you find. |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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Badger
Bone Stock
Posts:9
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| 03/21/2005 6:07 PM |
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Incredible. It was the freshly rebuilt starter! So much for Champion's (the spark plug people) quality control department. Had it tested at another shop and it was defective.
What ticks me off is that the place I got it from (Canadian Tire at Eglinton Ave/Laird Dr) tested it and said it was ok. If it's not good, why not just say so and replace it? It's under warranty so why have me chasing my tail looking for a problem that doesn't exist?
Anyway, thanks for allowing me to tap into your brains.
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 03/21/2005 8:57 PM |
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| Geez - what did they say after you told them it was bad? |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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Badger
Bone Stock
Posts:9
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| 03/21/2005 9:04 PM |
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I had to get it from another Canadian Tire store. They didn't say a word.
I figure the other place also knew it was bad.
Why else would they want me to bring the jeep in so they could "test" the starter and then charge me to change it?
I'll be sending them and Champion a nasty letter! |
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