Jess___
Bone Stock
Posts:0
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| 07/12/2004 2:16 PM |
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| Well... This is now the second time i have had a bad case of death wobble. I first had it when i had my 3 inch lift on my 94 jeep cherokee. I lifted it 3 more inches and got new tires (33's) and had it aligned. That seemed to fix my problem. Now its happening again. Ive had the tires balanced and rotated and took it to an alignment shop. The guy at the shop said that its no the alignment thats making it shake. Im stuck. Im in desperate need of help. This is not just my little mud jeep. This is my daily driver and i depend on it to get me to work. Please Help.
Jess |
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unknown___
Bone Stock
Posts:0
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| 07/25/2004 8:45 AM |
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Jess at 7/12/2004 2:15:59 PM
Well... This is now the second time i have had a bad case of death wobble. I first had it when i had my 3 inch lift on my 94 jeep cherokee. I lifted it 3 more inches and got new tires (33's) and had it aligned. That seemed to fix my problem. Now its happening again. Ive had the tires balanced and rotated and took it to an alignment shop. The guy at the shop said that its no the alignment thats making it shake. Im stuck. Im in desperate need of help. This is not just my little mud jeep. This is my daily driver and i depend on it to get me to work. Please Help.
Jess
I had the same thing with a camero z 28 it had too much air in the tires |
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jeeper dog
Bone Stock
Posts:1
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| 05/16/2005 8:12 AM |
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| My 2001 Sahara is doing the same thing. I know my tires on the front are bad. Fixing to make the jump to a 4" lift with 33x12.5's. Hope this corrects the wobble. It seems to be most noticible between 55-60mph. Any suggestions??? |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 05/16/2005 10:59 AM |
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Most "Death Wobbles" are caused by only a handful of relatively-easily-fixable items.
1) Loose / worn steering components - This is probably the biggest culprit for the 'shimmys'. Ball joints and tie-rod ends are the most common, but also the owner should check for excessive play in the steering box.
2) Bad caster alignment - Caster is the forward or rearward rotation of the front axle (lengthwise, along its horizontal axis). Most mechanic shops will check for this with a front-end alignment, but some won't. Out-of-alignment caster problems is almost always cause by lifting a vehicle and the caster not changing with the lift. One of the primary reasons for caster alignment is to allow the front tires to "return to center" after making a turn, which is directly tied to any 'death wobble' or 'shimmy' problems people get after lifting their vehicle and not checking and/or adjusting the caster.
3) Bad steering stabilizer - One of the chief functions of a steering stabilizer is to buffer the forced steering effects when a tire(s) hits an object while in motion. This effect is called 'bump steer'. Most OE off-road vehicles come with steering stabilizers designed for the size of tire and suspension geometry when built at the factory. Increasing tire size and adding suspension lift typically overpowers the stock steering stabilizer, and the effect will be compounded when the steering stabilizer wears out and looses its effectiveness.
The three items above, 9 times out of 10, are the primary reasons for any 'death wobble' problem someone might have. There are obviously other items that can cause this, but this is the best place to start looking.
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 05/16/2005 3:36 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by webby4x4
Most "Death Wobbles" are caused by only a handful of relatively-easily-fixable items.
1) Loose / worn steering components - This is probably the biggest culprit for the 'shimmys'. Ball joints and tie-rod ends are the most common, but also the owner should check for excessive play in the steering box.
2) Bad caster alignment - Caster is the forward or rearward rotation of the front axle (lengthwise, along its horizontal axis). Most mechanic shops will check for this with a front-end alignment, but some won't. Out-of-alignment caster problems is almost always cause by lifting a vehicle and the caster not changing with the lift. One of the primary reasons for caster alignment is to allow the front tires to "return to center" after making a turn, which is directly tied to any 'death wobble' or 'shimmy' problems people get after lifting their vehicle and not checking and/or adjusting the caster.
3) Bad steering stabilizer - One of the chief functions of a steering stabilizer is to buffer the forced steering effects when a tire(s) hits an object while in motion. This effect is called 'bump steer'. Most OE off-road vehicles come with steering stabilizers designed for the size of tire and suspension geometry when built at the factory. Increasing tire size and adding suspension lift typically overpowers the stock steering stabilizer, and the effect will be compounded when the steering stabilizer wears out and looses its effectiveness.
The three items above, 9 times out of 10, are the primary reasons for any 'death wobble' problem someone might have. There are obviously other items that can cause this, but this is the best place to start looking.
Rick
Pretty good answer Rick, one of the better answers I have seen on the subject too. Most of the time though caster is the culprit and loose linkages agrevate it further. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 05/16/2005 7:53 PM |
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Thanks SnoMan!
I concur, bad caster is typically the first problem with any modified rig.
And the ol' death wobble is a pretty serious problem. [*:o]
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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Sedge1080
Bone Stock
Posts:8
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| 04/28/2006 1:28 PM |
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| I agree... My 91 cherokee had the same problem. Talk about a DEALTH wobble. Just change out your bushings on your steering components. Also with 6 inches of lift be sure to put a drop pinion arm on your steering box.
Corey |
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Got Jeep? |
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PUjeeper
Bone Stock
Posts:15
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| 04/30/2006 9:46 PM |
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| How did you go about adding the 3 inches to your 3 inches? What are you doing for control arms? What track bar are you running? |
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RED-Rebal
Bone Stock
Posts:3
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| 03/14/2007 4:49 PM |
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Hey Guy's
another case of the [bartor]DEATH WOBBLE[bartor] that i now hate and can't figure out the problem i have read lots of posts about this topic and most ppl say that it acures when they are driving at the speeds of 50-60 mhs well i'am not having problems there but when i hit a pothole, crack ext... the front end feels like the front axle is going to rip off. i just got a ajustable track bar to add to the 4" Tera Flex lift with 32" 11 1/2 tires. I'am going to get a front end alinment this payday and then go from there
Can someone PLEASE Help Me!!!?????[zomb] |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 03/14/2007 6:13 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by RED-Rebal
Hey Guy's
another case of the [bartor]DEATH WOBBLE[bartor] that i now hate and can't figure out the problem i have read lots of posts about this topic and most ppl say that it acures when they are driving at the speeds of 50-60 mhs well i'am not having problems there but when i hit a pothole, crack ext... the front end feels like the front axle is going to rip off. i just got a ajustable track bar to add to the 4" Tera Flex lift with 32" 11 1/2 tires. I'am going to get a front end alinment this payday and then go from there
Can someone PLEASE Help Me!!!?????[zomb]
This is a caster/toein combo issue. When you lift vehicle and install oversized tires, stock alignment setting may not work also lifts tend to change axle caster and add to problem. When you get it aligned, get a print out of the the before and after specs of front end and if wobble is still there if you give me the numbers I can tell you what needs to be done to fix it (I used to align 4x4 front end many years ago before there was computer racks and you learned to use factory setting as a guideline and go from there based on what the problem was. It is kinda a dying art today because most places if it is not in the racks software, most techs do not have a clue.
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 03/14/2007 7:20 PM |
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My '74 Cruiser did it too (with only 35" tires / 4" lift), but only if I hit railroad tracks that were at an angle. I fixed mine in a rather unorthodox way, but it doesn't see any street driving anymore, so my cure won't work for everyone.
Regardless, SnoMan is right - it's most likely a toe-in / caster issue. But, before you head to the shop, be sure to check all of the tie-rod ends, other steering joints, ball joints, etc. for excessive wear / play.
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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RED-Rebal
Bone Stock
Posts:3
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| 03/15/2007 12:03 PM |
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| Thanks I will be getting the alinment fday 3/16 and go from there and tell you guys whats up. Could the bushings be a problem too? well anyway i hope this works........ talk to you l8r |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 03/15/2007 4:50 PM |
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yup - suspension bushings, if they are worn out, can cause that too, but it's far less common in many cases.
Good luck and let us know what you find.
thanks,
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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RED-Rebal
Bone Stock
Posts:3
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| 03/21/2007 3:28 PM |
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| Well i went to get an alinment and talk to the guy at the shop i was a little low on cash so he told me the cheap way to go about fixing it for now witch was a steering stabalizer it realy did help out. but for sure i'am still going to get an alinment next payday and new bushins. thanks though for the help...
And KEEP JEEPIN |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 03/21/2007 5:26 PM |
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| Good deal man! The steering stabilizer will hide the problems for a while, but longer term, your tires will wear out and it'll be a lot more expensive than an alignment! [:)] |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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k5qm
Bone Stock
Posts:15
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| 04/21/2007 6:23 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by Jess___
Well... This is now the second time i have had a bad case of death wobble. I first had it when i had my 3 inch lift on my 94 jeep cherokee. I lifted it 3 more inches and got new tires (33's) and had it aligned. That seemed to fix my problem. Now its happening again. Ive had the tires balanced and rotated and took it to an alignment shop. The guy at the shop said that its no the alignment thats making it shake. Im stuck. Im in desperate need of help. This is not just my little mud jeep. This is my daily driver and i depend on it to get me to work. Please Help.
Jess
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k5qm
Bone Stock
Posts:15
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| 04/21/2007 6:28 PM |
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| My 86 CJ-7 has the same wobble and it is caused by flexing around the power steering gear box. I just haven't found a fix yet. I suspect it is going to take some well placed welded supports. Next weeks project. Any ideas appreciated. k5qm@sbcglobal.net |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 04/21/2007 7:12 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by k5qm
My 86 CJ-7 has the same wobble and it is caused by flexing around the power steering gear box. I just haven't found a fix yet. I suspect it is going to take some well placed welded supports. Next weeks project. Any ideas appreciated. k5qm@sbcglobal.net
Your problem is cause by a unstable front axle alignment. The flexing around gear box is a not the cause of problem it is along a symptom of it. You have caster and toe in issues and the real fix is to correct them and not try to brute force it into stability because it is a bandaid fix at best. |
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kerbs
Bone Stock
Posts:1
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| 06/28/2007 11:05 PM |
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I have been reading all of the wonderful information you guys have about the 'death wobble'. I have been calling it the shaky-thing... sounds less fatal. :o)
Anyways, I took it to see my mechanic and as all of you have said, couldn't find the reason why it shakes. But during another visit he said that my steering damper has a leak. But he says that this isn't something that needs to be fixed immediately.
Now, deduction leads me to believe that that is the culprit. What do you smart people think? My wrangler is '98 with no lift modifications (yet). If it is the steering damper... can i fix that leak myself without attempting to disable the airbag? Is there a website with repair info? I am a poor college student and would like to solve this issue quickly and cheaply. |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 06/29/2007 1:24 PM |
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Hi Kerbs - A leaky steering stabilizer (or a completely non-functional one for that matter), won't *cause* a death wobble. Death wobble is typically caused by a few things going wrong at once (e.g. maligned caster and/or worn steering components). A steering stabilizer can mask a death wobble and limit it dramatically, but it can't cause it.
In your case, since your rig isn't modified, I would check two things:
1) Front alignment - take it to a good alignment shop, not just a mechanic. You likely have an alignment issue
2) At the same time, have them check your ball joints and other steering components too.
In regards to your question on changing out a steering stabilizer, this can be done with a few common hand tools (e.g. wrenches, etc.) and probably within 20 minutes. It's *very* easy to do. However, you must get a steering stabilizer to replace it with, not a shock absorber. While they look the same, they are quite different in function.
Hope that helps,
Rick
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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