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webby4x4 Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
 Rock Star Posts:2375

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| 11/17/2008 8:34 PM |
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View Results
OK folks - GM is announcing that they have about enougn cash reserves to last them to about February and after that, they close their doors. Ford and Chrysler are not far behind, either. The negotiations on capitol hill are making little progress and the UAW seems to be solely focused on the near-term and on self-preservation.
So the question I have is, what should the government do, if anything at this point?
What are your thoughts? |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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ChevyMan0784
 Lift & Lockers Posts:699

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| 11/17/2008 11:12 PM |
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| It is so sad that GM is going to be going out of business for good.... That really depresses me.... I am sure they wont be able to pull up before they hit the ground. |
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gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
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ChevyMan0784
 Lift & Lockers Posts:699

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| 11/17/2008 11:13 PM |
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gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
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yoda
 Bone Stock Posts:6
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| 11/19/2008 9:36 AM |
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All,
I hate to answer this question, because I wholeheartly feel that I as the Joe Taxpayer should not have to shoulder the cost of bailing out a publicly traded company like GM. I am still bitter over Fanny, Freddy etc. bailout but at least some of that blame has to fall back on the idiots (taxpayers) who agreed to take loans that they would never be able to repay after the initial term. While much of the rest of it falls back to shady banks buying and selling loans to each other so many times that the loans weren't worth the paper they were written on. Back this current rant, I didn't cause GM to over extend themselves, I didn't force GM to agree to unrealistic and costly labor prices, and benifits packages that CEO's of companies don't get! This is GM's problem not mine! I owe them nothing and basically the declining market, high fuel prices, and the exorbitant UAW costs have hurt them just as much as they're own greed. On the same note, General Motors, Ford Chrysler, and Harley Davidson are to me as American as Apple Pie. Hell, I have owned at a minimum 2 vehicles from each of the big 3 auto makers. So there is a part of me that says that these iconic American institutions cannot just fade away. So go ahead and bail thier sorry asses out, but make sure that the conditions favor me the tax payer saving money on my next GM product by cutting overhead, reducing uneccesary jobs, and chopping the legs out from under the UAW!
One other thought: How about the law of survival of the fittest. If GM folds then the American car buyer will turn to the other two options they will have left, Ford and Chrysler, thereby strengthening them both by the loss of G.M. That is if the american car buyer still has enough money in his pocket it even buy a new car.
We already know that our new President wants to socialize medical care, Gee whiz guys that shouldn't cost the tax payers much! Whats next are we going to bail out the Insurance market next because fewer people are buying cars, so fewer are being insured? Are we going to bail out the Supermarket industry because fewer people are having more than 2 children so they are buying less food? What about the cable TV industry? I have Direct TV and many others do too, is that industry next?
Where does the madness end? This is no longer a free market economy, this is becoming the United States Socialist Republics! If you don't know what socialism is, or don't care to accept that this is where we are headed, then you are a fool!
USA:
born July 4,1776
Died November 4, 2008
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webby4x4 Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
 Rock Star Posts:2375

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| 11/19/2008 10:17 PM |
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Interesting points, indeed. I too, am absolutely beside myself with this entire debacle.
There are several VERY troubling points here…
1) UAW - What seems to be so troubling at this point is that the UAW (which I've been saying for 10 years, will be the demise of American auto manufacturers) is taking a hardline stance. They're completely focused on the here and now, and not on the future. Gross / drastic concessions could make this work for the UAW and the manufacturers... however, UAW reps in D.C. are talking about retirees benefits and *current* wages, not what needs to be done to save these iconic, great companies! Here’s a simple formula: High wages + inflexible teamster bosses + rust-belt state representatives that are in the tank for constituent “blue collar” votes (e.g. Barney Frank) = complete disaster. How in the world could any business sacked with this ever be profitable in a competitive market?
2) Alan Mulally (Ford CEO), Robert Nardelli (Chrysler CEO) and Rick Wagoner (GM CEO) all flew to Washington today on private jets - they didn't even "jet pool"!!!! And then, had the courage to beg for billions of dollars of bailout money. This is absolutely appalling. When asked by congress if they would sell their jets and fly back commercial, none of the Detroit 3 CEO's raised their hands. So why would I (a taxpayer) give up more money to these companies if the leaders can’t set an example to their own company, let alone the people that they’re trying to raise money from?
3) I’ll try to keep politics out of this, but left-wing representatives are positioning for massive government oversight, which can (and probably will) lead to nationalization of the U.S. auto manufacturers. Want an example? Look at the civilian locomotive industry… it’s completely nationalized, and looses about $2 for every dollar of income. Certainly not a glowing example of a successful company.
At the end of the day, a bailout program withOUT sweeping, dramatic changes to the UAW is nothing more than a socialistic play to nationalize the automotive industry, and sack the taxpayers with no return on investment. What’s coming at us really quickly is a massive government intervention of the automotive industry, which is incredibly troublesome for a capitalistic society. Ummm… I don’t know about you, but I’m not ready to experiment with socialism.
Further, the ripple effects to a failing automotive sector is far greater than just the tens of thousands of GM, Ford and Chrysler employees. This will affect the lending industry (again!), the automotive auction industry, transportation industry, service industry, accessories industry and so on, and so on.
As of today, congress is saying no to a bailout, which I'm glad of. A complete and thorough restructuring is so very desperately needed. And, it has to happen NOW!
Rick
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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ChevyMan0784
 Lift & Lockers Posts:699

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| 11/20/2008 3:34 AM |
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| Man, all of this gives me a huge headache thinking about it.... Just sucks all the way around. |
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gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
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mbatchelor2
 Bone Stock Posts:0
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webby4x4 Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
 Rock Star Posts:2375

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| 12/21/2008 11:58 AM |
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A many of many words... Nice Chevy symbol! |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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LadyRed
 Bone Stock Posts:12

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| 12/31/2008 2:05 PM |
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| The word "jump" comes to my mind. |
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Stacie Albright Life Member BlueRibbon Coalition Friends of the Rubicon (FOTR) Motherlode Rockcrawlers CA4WDC |
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ChevyMan0784
 Lift & Lockers Posts:699

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| 01/01/2009 3:16 AM |
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| I agree.... Jump....lol.... |
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gimmie fuel gimmie fire gimmie that which I desire-James Hetfield
*Never give an Irish man good cause for revenge.
*Guns dont kill people, but they sure help!!
*98% OF AMERICANS SAY 'OH S**t' BEFORE GOING IN THE DITCH ON A ICEY ROAD.
THE OTHER 2% ARE FROM ALASKA, AND THEY SAY, 'HOLD MY BEER AND WATCH THIS |
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