|
|
|
|
| Author |
Messages |
|
walkingtall
Street Queen
Posts:102
 |
| 12/05/2006 11:55 AM |
|
| hey guys I have a question I was looking at a 96 ford bronco xlt, can you tell me what kind of diffs. they came with, and are they any good for offroading i think it had a 351 in it but not sure. any info would really help me out thanks |
|
|
|
|
webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
|
| 12/05/2006 5:09 PM |
|
Your '96 Ford Bronco had three engine options available (unless it was a Centurion version, in which case there was a 7.3L PowerStroke turbodiesel and the 7.5L 460ci gasoline V8 engines available). The engines were the 300 in Straight-6, 302 V8 and the 351 Windsor.
The 302 was probably the best engine in that class as it made good horsepower and torque. The 351 W motor didn't produce all that much more power, and the gas mileage was absolutely atrocious. The 300 I-6 motor was a pretty good unit, but was underpowered for the size and weight of the big 'ol Bronc.
The rear axle is the Ford 8.8", but I've heard some rumors (which I can't subsantiate) that there was a 9" option - I'm not convinced I believe that.
The front axle is a Dana 44 TTB (Twin Traction Beam) axle.
In my humble opinion, the front axle is likely the worst front axle design ever to grace any American iron. There are tons of problems with the TTB front axles (premature tire wearing, steering system component failure, very limited articulation, etc.). The Ford 8.8" rear axle is a pretty decent unit if used for moderate off-roading. Anything larger than a 33" tire, and you're risking some snapped axles. To swap in a Ford 9" axle is a pretty easy swap, and those are some VERY capable rear axles, easily able to handle 37" tires with big horsepower engines, if the right mods are made.
Hope that helps,
Rick |
|
Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
|
|
SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
|
| 12/06/2006 5:14 AM |
|
quote:
Originally posted by webby4x4
The 302 was probably the best engine in that class as it made good horsepower and torque. The 351 W motor didn't produce all that much more power, and the gas mileage was absolutely atrocious.
I do not quite agree with this Rick, I feel the 351 is a better engine here because 302 lacks torque than 351 can have via displacment. Given the same CR, breathing and cam timing, the 351 will greatly outclass a 302 in a heavy vehicle because off increased displacement and longer stroke. The problem with some 351 is that they were low in CR and choked off pretty good which equals lower MPG. |
|
--------------------------
Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
|
|
webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
|
| 12/06/2006 10:01 AM |
|
Your cost per horsepower or cost per torque though is through the roof on the 351. Yes, they produce more horsepower and more torque, but at a NON linear rate.
Rick |
|
Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
|
|
SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
|
| 12/06/2006 4:34 PM |
|
quote:
Originally posted by webby4x4
Your cost per horsepower or cost per torque though is through the roof on the 351. Yes, they produce more horsepower and more torque, but at a NON linear rate.
Rick
They can if properly built because the 351 was Ford answer to the 350 SB. The 302 is a smooth engine but it cannot touch even a chocked 351 in low RPM torque because it lacks the stroke and displacement. |
|
--------------------------
Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
|
|
walkingtall
Street Queen
Posts:102
|
| 12/06/2006 6:40 PM |
|
| what kind of diffs came stock on them is it just an open diff, and how do they handle offroading |
|
|
|
|
SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
|
| 12/06/2006 8:55 PM |
|
quote:
Originally posted by walkingtall
what kind of diffs came stock on them is it just an open diff, and how do they handle offroading
Posi was not standard but a lot came with the option. As far as how open diffes can do, I have plowed snow for many years with them and still do because I do not like have both rear tires spining at once suddenly on ice causing direction control issues. The only place that a open diff can be a major show stopper is rock crawling otherwise with some common sense you can do pretty well most of the time. |
|
--------------------------
Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
|
|
Dan Pitts
Body Lift
Posts:232
|
| 12/07/2006 12:49 PM |
|
| i disagree i would rather have a locker or limited slip at least a posi if i was doing anything off road. yes in snow they can cause a loss of cantrol that can put you off the road but you can get right back on the road because it adds so much more traction. anytime you are going to lift a tire, be in deep snow, do weekend wheeling, and and are going to be seeing mud i think you would much rather have some kind of traction aid. |
|
Danny Pitts
----------------------------------
lift it, fat chicks can't jump |
|
|
SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
|
| 12/08/2006 12:32 PM |
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dan Pitts
i disagree i would rather have a locker or limited slip at least a posi if i was doing anything off road. yes in snow they can cause a loss of cantrol that can put you off the road but you can get right back on the road because it adds so much more traction. anytime you are going to lift a tire, be in deep snow, do weekend wheeling, and and are going to be seeing mud i think you would much rather have some kind of traction aid.
I have been 4x4-ing on my own since about 1970 (I had owned 3 by 1975 and 4 wheeled as a passanger since well before 1970) and likley longer than most here and "posi" is not the must have that some make it out to be. I can honestly say that the few times that I have really been stuck in my life (last time required a backhoe to pull me out, time before that a big farm tractor) that "posi" would not have saved the day or keep me from getting stuck. Sure it can be helpfull at times but it is not a magic cure. |
|
--------------------------
Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
|
|
webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
|
| 12/08/2006 7:23 PM |
|
| oh boy... here it comes again! :) |
|
Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
|
|
SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
|
| 12/09/2006 4:42 AM |
|
quote:
Originally posted by webby4x4
oh boy... here it comes again! :)
Not realy, I just get perturbed with the veiw that it is a must have. It really depends on what type of usage you have planned as to how important it may or may not be. As I said earier, something like rock crawling would be tuff at times without some sort of locker. |
|
--------------------------
Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
|
|
Dan Pitts
Body Lift
Posts:232
|
| 12/09/2006 3:29 PM |
|
| i have only been 4wheeling for about three years now i started when i was 15 and i can agree that when you are in deep mud a posi wont always help. there are times though when you lose traction with one wheel and the other wheel can be on solid ground. i dont think that the weekend wheeler is going to try and go through 3 feet of mud where a posi wont matter as much to lets say a foot where on one side of the mud is soft and the other side is hard. this is where a tracton aid is going to shine. on the other hand if you are going to be in snow more and your truck isn't going to see as much off road as it does on road snow driving i would stick with an open differintial. this well allow for better handling. |
|
Danny Pitts
----------------------------------
lift it, fat chicks can't jump |
|
|
SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
|
| 12/09/2006 5:15 PM |
|
| One of the worst stucks I ever had was back in the mid 70's when I was coming down this mild slope of a hill toward a creek bad that looked pretty dry and had water going through it in a area about 2 two wide just a few inches deep. I never got to the open water because what looked like dry ground 10 feet before open water was but a dry crust on top of muddy slop. Truck broke through it and buried front end up to middle of grill with mud plow up in front of it and front axle and tires were out of sight under mud and water and it stopped like it hit a brick wall. It was a 72 3/4 GMC 4x4, 4sp with split rims and 32 inch traction tires and no posi. All 4 tires would spin including the rear ones still on dry land and it would not even try to move. A 1 ton wrecker tried for a 1/2 hour and gave up as he could not budge it as it was stuck fast. I was getting ready to call for a semi wrecker when a guy came by with a old massey harris farm tractor that weighed about 8000lbs. When he first tried the tractor stood up with tires doing a slow spin and it would not move truck. (BTW tractor had a loader on front too so it was heavy up there) For one last attempt we loaded several people in bed of track behind rear axle and I used reverse for all it was worth while tractor on fresh ground for best bite pulled again pulling front end in the air while doing it and the suction slowly broke its grip and it pulled out. No damage was done that I found because I had it for another 8 years and would have known. BTW the rear bumber was a custom made one I got in Texas that had a 1 inch thick plate where hitch balls went and was made from a 4 inch C channel that was 3/8 inch thick and was stamped into a curve too and attached to frame with 1/2 inch straps with no offset. Strongest bumper I ever had on any truck to date. The purpose of this story? It is your "brain" that gets you stuck or unstuck not your lack of or having posi because you need to be able to properly size things up before you charge in and it is a mistake that I have never repeated. |
|
--------------------------
Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
|
|
Dan Pitts
Body Lift
Posts:232
|
| 12/09/2006 7:53 PM |
|
| that is the truth of it. when i first started 4 wheeling it was hey that looks easy. this got me stuck many of times. Rick will tell you that the first time i ever saw his cruiser in action was when he was pulling me out the mud didn't look that deep rick i swear. after a wheeling trip or two with rick i learned that you have to scout before entering. now i get out and look at everything and it has kept me from getting stuck alot now. most of the kids i wheel with from school there parents bought them a jeep and they think it is the best thing. i hand built my truck from ground up and i scout everything. therefore i end up pulling them out alot more than they pull me out. they think it is the truck which is some of it but it also how drive it and look at the objects. it is all in your brain and how u approach the situation. you are right about that. |
|
Danny Pitts
----------------------------------
lift it, fat chicks can't jump |
|
|
SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
|
| 12/10/2006 5:43 AM |
|
| There are some that think it is cool to get stuck and retrived like a badge of honor or something. Not me as it is cooler not to get stuck to begin with. Also I have no ego to satisfy or harm so that not trying something that looks too risky do not bother me at all. I will get out and get dirty sometimes checking the terrain. If it does not "feel" or look right I will not try. This is not to say that it has to be perfect by any means, it just means the odds have to be in my favor in my mind before I even try. When I am around home on my acreage I am not as cautious because worst case senerio is a 10 or 15 minute walk back to barn to get tractor to extract it because that tractor that weighs between 4000 and 5000lbs will swim through mud with ease except it has no cab or creature comforts but it is as old as me (they really built them back then) so we kinda have a "bond" of sorts and it has never let me down when I needed its services. |
|
--------------------------
Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
|
|
webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
|
| 12/10/2006 7:51 AM |
|
quote:
Originally posted by SnoMan
Also I have no ego to satisfy or harm so that not trying something that looks too risky do not bother me at all. I will get out and get dirty sometimes checking the terrain. If it does not "feel" or look right I will not try.
This is certainly the "smarter" way to go off road, especially if your intentions are to explore, get away from it all, or simply to go out for a minmially challenging ride.
For me, if I'm not testing products, I tend to pick lines that will put myself and my rig to the challenge, without intentionally breaking my ride. If I'm just out wheeling with friends (which doesn't happen nearly enough), I like to challenge myself and my rig, but not spend the day wrenching on my junk either - riding the razor's edge if you will.
quote:
Previously posted by SnoMan
The purpose of this story? It is your "brain" that gets you stuck or unstuck not your lack of or having posi because you need to be able to properly size things up before you charge in and it is a mistake that I have never repeated.
You're 100%, absolutely right. I've been wheeling for 15 years, the last 10 years have been more on the 'serious' side. I can count on one hand how many times I've seen someone get stuck when they shouldn't have (they had properly equipped rigs, good common sense prevailing, trail inspected, etc.), but I've seen, seriously, 100's if not possibly a thousand or so times people get stuck because they weren't prepared - and more often than not, they weren't prepared mentally. And, in most cases, 'stooped human trix' are fun to watch, unless their blocking your forward progress.
But, back to the discussion surrounding lockers, posi's and open diffs...
I spent my first 10 years wheeling in Arizona, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico and California. The last 5 years have been spent wheeling in the Midwest. I've never once thought to myself, "gee... I wish I had open diffs", or "golly... I don't like having lockers", and honestly, I don't think I ever will. And frankly, when it comes to lockers vs. open diffs or posi's, I'll follow the tried and true preparedness credo of "Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it." Oh yeah, even wheeling in the winter time, I've never once regretted having lockers in my rig.
Does that mean I have to have lockers? Absolutely not... I could probably wheel at least 20-25% of the areas I've wheeled in the past with open diffs, maybe 30% if I really pushed my rig. But then again, there's that 70-75% of the places I've been, seen and experienced that I wouldn't have had the pleasure of going to without them.
So, for me, I'd rather have it and not need it, than need it and not make it.
Rick
|
|
Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
|
|
SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
|
| 12/10/2006 10:11 AM |
|
| Back in the 70's I had this freind that had a old 1950 military power wagon that looked like a Jeep on steriods. We used to take it out in the hills of western North Carolinas and eastern Tennesse exploring old roads and making them too. It did not have posi and it had a top speed of maybe 40 MPH with a tail wind from its flat head 6 but it was completely mil stock and "fordable" too. That thing was a tank and if the hill was to bad to climb, you used the engine driven winch (that never got tired or overheated) to get you up the hill. One time it slipped off a narrow slick road and down a hill side and was wedged next to a tree. Even withou the tree you could not drive it out because of grade. Could not get engine to start because it was banked so steeply the fuel pickup was dry and the filler was on down hill side too and it was maybe 5 or 6 miles for nearest gravel road and no way a wrecker could get in there (a dozer could) My friend got the idea to get a jug of gas and strap it to fender and remove hose from fuel line going to tank and stick it in the jug of gas. After hiking out that day and back in the next he did that and motor started up, engaged PTO for winch and winched it back up the slope about 40 feet to the trail. Once on the trail, he switched the fuel line back and continued on. Another time we were crossing this old bridge on a really old logging trail that collapsed with us on it and we feel about 5 or 6 feet into a creek with a few feet of water in it. Truck never stalled and we got it headed down the creek and drove for a while until we found a place to crawl out and work our way back up to trail. I could tell more stories but the point is I was doing this stuff hard core long before they commercailized it and back when trucks were trucks not the car trucks they are today. Back in the old days when we used to wheel there was no other 4x4s around and you were really blazing the trail unlike today where you are more a cow in the herd most of the time. BTW, the off road I kind enjoy now is while on a 10 or 15 ton dozer trying to pick out a path to cut a road through stuff to thick to even walk though. One more closing thought, for many years we used to trail ride too and had several horses of my own and let me tell you that there is not a vehicle made that can match a horse went things get really bad as I have been places with them that no even 4 wheel quads or dirt bikes could tread. If you ever got in a really bad spot you just gave the horse its lead and it would get you out of it. Sometimes I would not mind getting back into horses again because they can take you places no machine short of a bulldozer can and then some off road. |
|
--------------------------
Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
|
|
|
| Please login or register to post a message or a reply. |
|
|
|
ActiveForums 3.7
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|