pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 04/22/2007 8:53 AM |
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hey i got a 5.8 351 windsor in my 1988 f150 and it runs and everything i just dont have very much power and it misfires. it has a tune up (new oil, plugs, wires, distributer car, rotor, and oil filter, air filter still clean) runs better but still misfire. i tried adjusting the timing and didnt help. i tried pulling sparkplug wires to pinpoint a certian cylinder but nothing.
so after that, i pulled these codes.
key on engine off- 84 33 41
key on engine running- 12 21 42 33 18 77
and i know the egr is bad because its not hooked up or any good. i looked around for a replacement but i cant seem to find that part for this old of a truck. but im not sure that this is the problem.
so... what should i do?
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grumpydawg
Street Queen
Posts:100
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| 04/22/2007 11:45 AM |
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| call your local auto zone for the meanings of the codes, then call your local "old timmers" auto parts store--the one with the old guys that know how to read parts books and not just computers for your egr valve, they have connections that you wouldn't beleive to find parts, also napa has access to lots of "dealer only" parts try them |
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when in doubt use duct tape |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 04/22/2007 5:07 PM |
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Here are your trouble codes for your '88 Ford:
Diagnostic Trouble Codes - 1988
Ford
11 System "pass"
12 RPM out of spec (extended idle)
13 RPM out of spec (normal idle)
14 PIP was erratic (continuous test)
15 ROM test failed
16 RPM too low (fuel lean test) **
17 RPM too low (upstream/lean test) **
18 No tach
19 No power to processor or idle speed incorrect
21 ECT out of range
22 MAP out of range
23 TPS out of range
24 ACT out of range
25 Knock not sensed in test
26 MAF (VAF) out of range
28 Ambient temp. below 50° F (1.9L EFI & 2.3L Turbo only)
31 EVP out of limits
32 EGR not controlling
33 EVP not closing properly
34 No EGR flow
35 RPM too low (EGR test)
36 Fuel always lean (at idle)
37 Fuel always rich (at idle)
41 System always lean
42 System always rich
43 EGO cool down occurred
44 Air management system inoperative
45 Air always upstream
46 Air not always bypassed
47 Up air/lean test always rich***
48 Injectors unbalanced
51 ECT input too high
52 Power steering pressure switch is open or steering wheel not turned during KOER self-test
53 TPS input too high
54 ACT (VAT) input too high
55 Electrical charging under voltage
56 MAF (VAF) input too high
58 Idle tracking switch input too high (engine running test)
59 Trans. hydraulic switch (THS 3/4) failed in open position (3.0L & 3.8L A/T only
61 ECT input too low
62 Trans. hydraulic switch (THS 3/4) failed
63 TPS input too low
64 ACT (VAT) input too low
65 Electrical charging over voltage
66 MAF (VAF) input too low
67 Neutral drive switch drive or accelerator on (engine off)
68 ITS open or AC on (engine-off test)
69 Trans. hydraulic switch (THS 3/2) failed
72 No MAP change in "goose test"
73 No TPS change in "goose test"
74 Brake on/off switch always open or not activated during test
75 Brake on/off switch always closed or circuit shorted
76 No MAF (VAF) change in "goose test"
77 Operator did not do "goose test"
79 Neutral drive switch (NDS) or A/C input signal interrupted
81 Thermactor air bypass (TAB) circuit fault
82 Thermactor air diverter (TAD) circuit fault
83 EGR control (EGRC) circuit fault
84 EGR vent (EGRV) circuit fault
85 Canister purge (CANP) circuit fault
86 WOT A/C cut-off circuit fault (all 3.8L and 5.0L Continental)
87 Fuel pump circuit fault
88 Throttle kicker circuit fault (5.0L)
89 Check Continuity Of VPWR Circuit
91 Right EGO always lean
92 Right EGO always rich
93 Right EGO cool down occurred
94 Right secondary air inoperative
95 Right air always upstream
96 Right air always not bypassed
97 RPM drop (with fuel lean) but right EGO rich
98 RPM drop (with fuel rich) but right EGO lean
99 ECA has not stored enough information to control idle speed (CFI engines only
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
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'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 04/22/2007 5:09 PM |
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By the way - if you don't know what a "goose test" is (I hope I'm not insulting anyone's intelligence) - it's when you snap the throttle to the 1/2 way point, then release. It's also called a "dynamic response test". These are done when the engine is running - you should get your goose signal to move the pedal to the 1/2 way point, then release.
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 04/22/2007 6:22 PM |
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nah never heard of goose test lol (guess i messed up on pulling the koer codes). i havent checked for codes before. but i just cant figure out whats wrong with this truck. its ben botherin me for awile.its missing pretty bad and theres noticeable power loss. i looked up the codes off fordfuelinjection.com and even when looking at what the error codes meant i cant pinpoint whats wrong with the truck. it did run fine with the egr disconnected (the pipe is cut off near the exaust maniford and *plugged* ) so i guess i could have a couple of problems. but im trying to figure out whats wrong with it because i dont want to take it up to get it repaired. its just an old work truck that i drive every now and then and dont want to put too much money in it.
and i tried napa awile ago for that egr.I think they could supply me with the egr but not the whole assembly.
i suspect that i have a few dirty or bad fuel injectors. but i really dont know. thought id get yall's opinions on what i should do before i start turnin wrenches on it.
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 04/25/2007 3:25 PM |
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Im pretty sure i know what the problem is now.
I've recently heard of people (with dual exaust trucks) checking for malfunctioning valves by holding up a dollar bill by the exaust pipes. (if it constantly blows and sucks in you have a problem) well one side clonstantly blows out while the other is sucking in and blowing out at idle. so im assuming im going to have to rebuild the cylinder heads. which a malfunctioning valve would explain my power loss, missing, and running like crap. im thinking about putting on new cylinder heads and storing away the old ones.
and im pretty sure ive figured out which cylinder is causing the problem, not saying that the other ones are in good shape either, just i suspect the valve isnt closing on one of them (burnt). |
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grumpydawg
Street Queen
Posts:100
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| 04/26/2007 10:40 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pmipmatt73
Im pretty sure i know what the problem is now.
I've recently heard of people (with dual exaust trucks) checking for malfunctioning valves by holding up a dollar bill by the exaust pipes.
gotta love the "old school" mechanics tricks |
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when in doubt use duct tape |
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 04/29/2007 7:10 AM |
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| yeah seriosly. im glad i heard about it. |
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grumpydawg
Street Queen
Posts:100
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| 04/29/2007 7:20 AM |
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| i heard, read, or seen it about 30 years ago and forgot about it untill you brought it up.[@#@]damned tencholigy advances[:)] |
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when in doubt use duct tape |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 04/30/2007 7:46 PM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pmipmatt73
I've recently heard of people (with dual exaust trucks) checking for malfunctioning valves by holding up a dollar bill by the exaust pipes. (if it constantly blows and sucks in you have a problem)
This works with single exhaust too though maybe it is harder to narrow down bank though a pulling plug wires and checking for the least drop in RPM will point out bad cylinder. |
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Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 06/16/2007 10:27 PM |
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finally started working on this truck. i pulled off the cylinder heads and looked like some ports looked like a rusted color and some looked black. and there are carbon deposits too.
the injectors looked bad. the caps around the nozzle were just cracking. dont think thats a good sign.
and one of the vaulve cover gaskets were blown....(but i already knew this =P)
but i figured out that the engine was replaced (without the heads, shortblock engine) and at least that looks good. and the lifters and pushrods dont look 20 years old either.
well, at least i caught all this before i broke down somewhere.
but i do have a question. there is a pipe on the back of each cylinder head and they look like they are supposed to go somewhere but they are capped off (cut the pipe and closed it on each head) what is the purpose of these pipes and is it bad to leave em' plugged up like that? |
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 06/18/2007 11:37 PM |
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ok took my cylinder heads up to a machine shop to this guy i know and he told me that most of the the valves were jammed up in the valve seats... and when i looked at them after he told me that it made perfect sense why some were sunk in and only a few were not. and the pipe on the back just connects the two together, still dont know the purpose of it.
but anyways he's chargine me 250$ to rebuild them both and replacing all the bad with new, im glad i finally figured out whats wrong with this truck, even though guessing whats the problem might not be the best strategy for fixing things, it sure beats paying the dealership tons of money, and your money goes into replacing other parts that mightof ben ready to die... |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 06/19/2007 9:39 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pmipmatt73
ok took my cylinder heads up to a machine shop to this guy i know and he told me that most of the the valves were jammed up in the valve seats... and when i looked at them after he told me that it made perfect sense why some were sunk in and only a few were not.
It makes complete sense to me. If you use low octane fuel and it is prone to ping it can hammer the valves and seats pretty badly. |
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Visit the SnoMan at
www.thesnoman.com |
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 06/19/2007 8:20 PM |
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ever sense we owned it we used the premium gasoline.. but your still right. and i think when someone repaired it before they didnt set the timing right and therefore also screwing up the heads. as a matter of fact i almost know this because theres a piece missing by the harmonic balancer that helps set the timing. (watever the things called.)
another funny thing i found with this truck is that there was a carpenters pencil taped up (duct taped) to the throttle cable.. where the spring goes. it held the spring to the cable and kept everything strait....*you might be a redneck if...*
as for the downshift cable, it snapped... he used a piece of string tied to the broken cable...good as new
looks like the upper intake manifold had a small piece of it cracked off because it is now jb welded back on... (he did a good job with this fix however...)
plenty of other quick and cheap fixes on this truck to...
i mean seriosly this truck wasnt safe... but mysteriously...its ben running for nearly20 years as a daily driver. broke down twice |
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webby4x4
Forum Admin, Magazine Editor
Rock Star
Posts:2375
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| 06/22/2007 8:28 PM |
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wholly crap - it's amazing what people will do sometimes - although, I've been known to make a trail-side fix and then forget about it for several years too. [)]
Have you thought about swapping out the intake manifold so that you can fix things the right way?
Rick |
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Rick Webster
Editor, 4X4REVIEW.COM - A Tork Media, Inc. Publication
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
'74 FJ40 Land Cruiser
"Measure once, cut twice" |
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 06/22/2007 10:15 PM |
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yeah i fixed all of these problems, and im redoing everything that he did so it will be done the right way, (and not the cheap ,fast, and easy way). the only quick fix im leaving is the intake manifold because its just so smooth and i cant feel a crack in it, and i also was curios if it would break so i tapped on it with a hammer and it was alright. but yeah repairing all of this isnt cheap... but the truck was my great grandfathers, so its worth it.
all im doing now is waiting for my heads to be done... i cleaned up all the parts so the engine will look real nice too. might paint valve covers... but that may be overdoing it =P
another reason why im taking my time and doing it the right way is because i dont wanna do this again... better get it right the first time.. hehe |
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 07/02/2007 7:27 PM |
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hehe i put it all together and it ran great!!!! ran it smooth for awile... and then i tryied to see what it could do... and it was spinnin tires n all i loved it. but when i was tryin it on the highway it broke down on me. pretty sure it was a blown head gasket (water under valve covers). the way i torqed the heads down was with a 1/2 inch breaker bar and in the sequence that the hanes manual said. it didnt say up or down on the gasket, it just said front on the gasket, so i had no idea what side went up.... so i figured it could be flipped either way as long as *front* was towards the front of the engine.
well...anywho... time to rebuild it...again. =) |
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SnoMan
Lift & Lockers
Posts:943
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| 07/04/2007 4:52 AM |
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quote:
Originally posted by pmipmatt73
hehe i put it all together and it ran great!!!! ran it smooth for awile... and then i tryied to see what it could do... and it was spinnin tires n all i loved it. but when i was tryin it on the highway it broke down on me. pretty sure it was a blown head gasket (water under valve covers). the way i torqed the heads down was with a 1/2 inch breaker bar and in the sequence that the hanes manual said. it didnt say up or down on the gasket, it just said front on the gasket, so i had no idea what side went up.... so i figured it could be flipped either way as long as *front* was towards the front of the engine.
well...anywho... time to rebuild it...again. =)
Did you re torque the heads after the first heat/run cycle when it cooled down???? |
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Visit the SnoMan at
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pmipmatt73
Street Queen
Posts:115
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| 07/04/2007 10:23 AM |
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actually no...never heard of doing this. this is my first time ever swapping heads on a truck, so i could use any advice i can get at this point considering i did it wrong the first time lol. i got plenty of time and i like getting the experience from doing this so im willing to keep doing it till i get it right.
so after the first heat (maybe like 15 minutes at idle speed???) take it apart again and re torque?
anything else i should know about? |
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